Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Police officer discretion

    I’ve got a question in regards to the title, and even for current/former LEOs that may drop in- I encourage both legal opinions and personal opinions.

    Suppose someone is pulled over and found to be in possession of a firearm when they’re prohibited- either because they don’t have a LTCF in PA (or god forbid, Jersey…) or because they’re prohibited but lack a criminal record-and suppose they tell you they’re carrying- “hey, FYI I have……”

    Suppose they refuse to surrender their firearm?

    -can a police officer refuse to take the assumed route? IE can he let them go on their way and ignore the firearm?
    - what would the consequences be for said officer if he did?
    - how would YOU (for the LEOs and former…) feel about either decision (to arrest or not?)


    I ask because I’ve followed the case of David ware. The dash video is public and shows the murder of two police officers. He’s a convicted felon at the time and I’m convinced refuses to surrender to the towing of his vehicle because of said record and handgun in his car that would be found on inventory… so he resists and here he is. If he’s not facing possession charges I think those two officers would be alive…. Maybe🤷*♂️

    So consider the case if you’re familiar with it, and change any of the details that would be needed to sway your opinions to and from- ie “ if… then i would/could”

    Could any details exist that would/could have you sway your decision from “let him go” to “no way”

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Most likely you will be shot if you dont turn your firearm over.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    Most likely you will be shot if you dont turn your firearm over.
    Yep.

    We can scream all we want about 2A infringement and bad cops, so put that aside for today.

    If you are prohibited and found to have a firearm in your vehicle upon a traffic stop, surrendering yourself and the firearm is your best option if you want to live.

    I'd like to know the order at a stop. Run plate and check of registered owner, then to vehicle to check driver (?). Anything that comes up in that first step leads to heightened alert by the police.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Take a look at the case of shileen allen. She was legal to carry in pa, wasnt a prohibited person, but made the mistake of carrying across state lines, and was arrested for it. If there was any chance of discretion, that would have been the time to give it and tell her to go back to pa and don't bring a firearm into nj.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    I don't see any wiggle room on this one. In the case of an honest mistake, it should be addressed in front of the judge.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    I don't see any wiggle room on this one. In the case of an honest mistake, it should be addressed in front of the judge.
    The same politicians that violate the 2nd also exist in “smaller” offices. It’s still a roll of the dice is it not?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    I don't see any wiggle room on this one. In the case of an honest mistake, it should be addressed in front of the judge.
    Agree. If you're not prohibited, you would most likely have an LTCF. You know if you're prohibited. The scenario in the OP implies the person knew they were.

    Almost like, 'I didn't know the speed limit was 15MPH in this school zone.'

    As far as the LE reaction. Would you want to be on the end of letting a prohibited person with a gun in a car go? Or a mandatory reporter not reporting suspected child abuse or threats of violence or suicide? That's a recipe for personal, social, and financial ruin. Or worse.

  8. #8
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    Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by SIGFAN86 View Post
    Take a look at the case of shileen allen. She was legal to carry in pa, wasnt a prohibited person, but made the mistake of carrying across state lines, and was arrested for it. If there was any chance of discretion, that would have been the time to give it and tell her to go back to pa and don't bring a firearm into nj.
    I know of one NJ State Trooper who did exactly that. Came across a woman with a PA LTCF in NJ where no crime was being committed and let her go with a warning to take the gun back to PA and leave it there. I wouldn't count on meeting another Trooper like him if you're in NJ. I suspect they are as rare as a real woman above 8 on the hot matrix and below 4 on the crazy line!!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Reminded me of the time I was working off-duty Armed Security at Commack Theaters Lobby full of young men and corner of my eye I see a 20 year old male lifting his jacket showing off the heel of a revolver .Given a full lobby I close quatered him asked is that a gun ? He was speechles I reached in disarmed him and cuffed him out to managers office .Illegal possession of a handgun,Father OTJ cant be reached,and 30 joints .GOD only knows what his intentions were .And all this for some extra money off duty .Now you can pick apart the scenario but mayhem was clearly avoided .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    ...As far as the LE reaction. Would you want to be on the end of letting a prohibited person with a gun in a car go? Or a mandatory reporter not reporting suspected child abuse or threats of violence or suicide? That's a recipe for personal, social, and financial ruin. Or worse.
    I think this issue is critical to the question. Given events of the last few years, all the talk of rescinding Qualified Immunity, etc. I can tell you if I were LEO, I would currently be sticking real close to 'letter of the law' to avoid said 'personal social and financial ruin'.

    More broadly... LEO clearly has some discretion generally - e.g. many/most have been 'let go with a warning' for speeding. Does that discretion disappear if it's a felony of any kind? If it's a firearms issue? A quick search (for whatever that's worth) strongly suggests two things to me: 1) it's gonna vary according to jurisdiction, e.g. some places have distinct 'shall' arrest specifications for certain offenses where some don't, and 2) it's gonna vary by department in terms of real-world enforcement/oversight of such policies.

    Hope some actual LEO will weigh in.
    DGAF

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