Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Police discretion almost never works out in the citizens favor
    Last edited by DMG; December 27th, 2021 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Officer needs to follow the letter of the law? by enforcing the 2nd amendment? and if in PA, shall not be infringed?
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Eastern, Pennsylvania
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    15254551

    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by sbmania View Post
    I know of one NJ State Trooper who did exactly that. Came across a woman with a PA LTCF in NJ where no crime was being committed and let her go with a warning to take the gun back to PA and leave it there. I wouldn't count on meeting another Trooper like him if you're in NJ. I suspect they are as rare as a real woman above 8 on the hot matrix and below 4 on the crazy line!!
    That woman won the rarest lottery in the north east.
    Good on that nj trooper. Not something I'd expect from nj

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Still active. Some of my thoughts. Remember I am in Philadelphia with Larry Krasner and record high violence and murder.

    The only way I could think of giving someone discretion or a break without an LTCF is if they were stopped coming from a range or a gun store and they didn*t go straight home as per the law. Only other possibility is their LTCF is expired within 6 months.

    Many people are given a break when their firearm is stolen from their auto*s center console or glovebox and they don*t have a LTCF and their reason for having it there was because they did t want to bring it into their house.

    If someone is criminally or mentally prohibited all bets are off. Get that straightened out before carrying. I hate when people say to me *don*t do this to me.* You did it to yourself.


    Now small town cops, where they personally know some or all of their residents, it may be a different story.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnSmith33 View Post
    *..

    I ask because I*ve followed the case of David ware. The dash video is public and shows the murder of two police officers. He*s a convicted felon at the time and I*m convinced refuses to surrender to the towing of his vehicle because of said record and handgun in his car that would be found on inventory* so he resists and here he is. If he*s not facing possession charges I think those two officers would be alive*. Maybe��***

    So Ware went from a possible possession charge, to two counts of murder with the DA asking for the Death Penalty. Does that seem like a good trade off?

    And your suggestion that if the police just let him go, they would have never been killed, sounds like some of the Kool Aid that Philadelphia City Council is drinking. They are mandating that the police not be able to stop people for minor offenses so that there is no confrontation with the police. But they don*t mention to their constituents to not commit minor offenses (like registering or inspecting your vehicle) to avoid being stopped by the police.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    20,351
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    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    So Ware went from a possible possession charge, to two counts of murder with the DA asking for the Death Penalty. Does that seem like a good trade off?

    And your suggestion that if the police just let him go, they would have never been killed, sounds like some of the Kool Aid that Philadelphia City Council is drinking. They are mandating that the police not be able to stop people for minor offenses so that there is no confrontation with the police. But they don*t mention to their constituents to not commit minor offenses (like registering or inspecting your vehicle) to avoid being stopped by the police.
    Registering and inspecting a vehicle is racist. How can those poor inner city folk afford such expenses.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    11,764
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    21474859

    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Registering and inspecting a vehicle is racist. How can those poor inner city folk afford such expenses.
    Yeah, next think you know, he'll be wanting them to have insurance too.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    31
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    0

    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    So Ware went from a possible possession charge, to two counts of murder with the DA asking for the Death Penalty. Does that seem like a good trade off?

    And your suggestion that if the police just let him go, they would have never been killed, sounds like some of the Kool Aid that Philadelphia City Council is drinking. They are mandating that the police not be able to stop people for minor offenses so that there is no confrontation with the police. But they don*t mention to their constituents to not commit minor offenses (like registering or inspecting your vehicle) to avoid being stopped by the police.
    “From my cold dead hands…”
    Right?

    Some would rather that. Assume another scenario. “Would rather die on my feet than live on my knees..”

    I’m asking you to argue against yourself. Suppose he’s “prohibited” because of unconstitutional laws- ie magazine restrictions or firearm restrictions.

    It’s not “black and white” bad guy or not and the system isn’t always fair. You’re also arguing that it’s either bad guy or not, and it’s not so cut and dry- assume someone with no record- are they a threat to you?

    So I know your take on David’s situation. Question is can your change the details of the case as needed to come to a situation where you would come to a different conclusion?

    Appreciate the response. So, given Philly and your circumstances…

    Suppose you pull someone over. They tell you they’re caring and it’s illegal- maybe they don’t have ltcf or it’s classified as a loaded long gun-what have you… BUT

    They also won’t surrender their firearm. What would you do? Are there any circumstances that would lead you to a different conclusion

    I deleted one response because they were both directed at you- given you’re a leo
    Last edited by JohnSmith33; December 26th, 2021 at 04:29 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    31
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    0

    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    Officer needs to follow the letter of the law? by enforcing the 2nd amendment? and if in PA, shall not be infringed?
    That’s the idea isn’t it? There are several laws that have been passed that are unconstitutional and illegal. It takes $$$ to fight them. How much does each responder respect the 2nd? Do they enforce any and all laws and invoke the famed “superior orders” defense or do they sway the other way? What does it take to sway ones opinion from one position to the other?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    3,312
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    21474851

    Default Re: Police officer discretion

    The extremes at each end of the continuum makes easy choices. As soon as you move away from those absolutes, it's gray. An LTCF is a constitutional infringement, yet I'll bet 99.9% of members here have one.

    Agree or disagree with the LTCF, if you're prohibited, you already have a record.

    The vast majority of the 'from my cold dead hands' and 'die on my feet' crowd are NOT walking around Washington D.C. with suppressed SBR's to show their commitment to constitutionality. They're not carrying handguns openly in NYC.

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