Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    If you want to read a condensed version of what is being talked about here go to: https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=49643 This is the definitions (state and Federal (and one tongue in cheek definition)) of firearms and a bit of other interesting info.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs View Post
    Let me get this straight....



    My Remington 870 with an 18.5 inch police barrel and an overall length of about 36 inches (give or take) is not a firearm in the state of Pennsylvania? And if I put the 24 inch skeet barrel on it then it's like...REALLY not a firearm?

    Sorry...I grew up in Maryland where the gun laws are just as nonsensical, but in the other direction...where they LITERALLY charged an elementary school kid with assault for biting his sandwich into the shape of a gun at school.
    The UFA has multiple definitions of "firearm", depending on the context. Transfers are not the same as for prohibited persons, and antiques sometimes factor in, plus the Section 908 POW's that are outside the UFA, etc.

    Your shotgun that isn't a firearm for carrying or transfer, becomes one when you are a prohibited person. That mail order blackpowder gun that the Feds ignore and mostly PA does, becomes a firearm that you can't possess if you have a PA prohibitor.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    There's merit to carrying your backup mag in a backup gun.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The UFA has multiple definitions of "firearm", depending on the context. Transfers are not the same as for prohibited persons, and antiques sometimes factor in, plus the Section 908 POW's that are outside the UFA, etc.

    Your shotgun that isn't a firearm for carrying or transfer, becomes one when you are a prohibited person. That mail order blackpowder gun that the Feds ignore and mostly PA does, becomes a firearm that you can't possess if you have a PA prohibitor.
    Your job is hard. No wonder people pay you to explain this stuff to them!
    May the Schwartz Be With You

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    I am new to this thread and have been trying to read previous discussions regarding transporting long guns like an AR15 with 16 inch barrel. I would appreciate it if anyone could clarify something for me. I have read the hb40 multiple times and still not sure. I have a locked box bolted under my truck*s back seat. If I have my AR15 rifle in it, can I have my loaded magazines in a zipped money pouch in the same locked box and be legal? How about having the magazines in taco pouches on a belt in the same locked box? What if the AR15 receiver is an 80% home made weapon? Hb40 says if it is in a holster or pouch it is considered in a separate container. But what I have read does not sound like it. It seems that the only legal example anyone has is a soft rifle case with magazine pouches on the outside of case with velcro flaps. Are there any other options to have the loaded magazines in the same lock box but not in the rifle utilizing other magazine pouches? Thank you.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Rareman View Post
    I am new to this thread and have been trying to read previous discussions regarding transporting long guns like an AR15 with 16 inch barrel. I would appreciate it if anyone could clarify something for me. I have read the hb40 multiple times and still not sure. I have a locked box bolted under my truck*s back seat. If I have my AR15 rifle in it, can I have my loaded magazines in a zipped money pouch in the same locked box and be legal? How about having the magazines in taco pouches on a belt in the same locked box? What if the AR15 receiver is an 80% home made weapon? Hb40 says if it is in a holster or pouch it is considered in a separate container. But what I have read does not sound like it. It seems that the only legal example anyone has is a soft rifle case with magazine pouches on the outside of case with velcro flaps. Are there any other options to have the loaded magazines in the same lock box but not in the rifle utilizing other magazine pouches? Thank you.
    I'll wait and see if Gunlawer chimes in for the zippered pouch in the box. That's kinda grey in my mind. As far as on a belt in mag carriers in the same locked case, I'd say no. It's stupid, but I don't think that would count as a separate container. 80% reciever doesn't really matter either way, if it's built as a rifle. Kinda dumb, but I believe this would take to separate lock boxes to be legal unfortunately. Or lock box for rifle and case for mags.

    Another option would be to switch to an AR pistol if you have a LTC. That changes things and it could be in the same case or even loaded in the lock box.

    Side note:. What's HB40? HB usually denotes a bill going through the legislature. A law will be under Title 18 for the crimes code or Title 34 for the game code. That's where most of the laws that pertain to this will be found. Particularly title 18 chapter 61 is the firearm codes.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Rareman View Post
    I am new to this thread and have been trying to read previous discussions regarding transporting long guns like an AR15 with 16 inch barrel. I would appreciate it if anyone could clarify something for me. I have read the hb40 multiple times and still not sure. I have a locked box bolted under my truck*s back seat. If I have my AR15 rifle in it, can I have my loaded magazines in a zipped money pouch in the same locked box and be legal? How about having the magazines in taco pouches on a belt in the same locked box? What if the AR15 receiver is an 80% home made weapon? Hb40 says if it is in a holster or pouch it is considered in a separate container. But what I have read does not sound like it. It seems that the only legal example anyone has is a soft rifle case with magazine pouches on the outside of case with velcro flaps. Are there any other options to have the loaded magazines in the same lock box but not in the rifle utilizing other magazine pouches? Thank you.
    1) Welcome to PAFOA! Come for answers, stay for snarky amusement.

    B. 80% lowers that you have finished are legal.
    BUT Officer Friendly may not know that and could likely seize it and arrest you for whatever made up BS comes to mind. Kyle Rittenhouse's tribulations are yet another example of lawfare waged against we the people.

    3. This forum is NOT the ultimate word in legal vs illegal and asking for minute details is not really a great exercise, because lets face it, it's the internet.
    However you can get EXCEPTIONAL advice here at poofa.

    Fourth. I only carry what I am prepared to lose. If I have to use my carry weapon, its GONE. Law enforcement will grab it in a minute and look for evidence and keep it until they get good and ready to. And not one minute before.
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    I'll wait and see if Gunlawer chimes in for the zippered pouch in the box. That's kinda grey in my mind. As far as on a belt in mag carriers in the same locked case, I'd say no. It's stupid, but I don't think that would count as a separate container. 80% reciever doesn't really matter either way, if it's built as a rifle. Kinda dumb, but I believe this would take to separate lock boxes to be legal unfortunately. Or lock box for rifle and case for mags.

    Another option would be to switch to an AR pistol if you have a LTC. That changes things and it could be in the same case or even loaded in the lock box.

    Side note:. What's HB40? HB usually denotes a bill going through the legislature. A law will be under Title 18 for the crimes code or Title 34 for the game code. That's where most of the laws that pertain to this will be found. Particularly title 18 chapter 61 is the firearm codes.
    Thanks for the info. The HB40 is the 2011 PA castle law where the definition of loaded rifle was augmented to include holsters and pouches. Here is a link https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS...B&billNbr=0040
    I think it starts at bottom of page 11 for unloaded rifle transport.
    I do have LTCF.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by markshere2 View Post
    1) Welcome to PAFOA! Come for answers, stay for snarky amusement.

    B. 80% lowers that you have finished are legal.
    BUT Officer Friendly may not know that and could likely seize it and arrest you for whatever made up BS comes to mind. Kyle Rittenhouse's tribulations are yet another example of lawfare waged against we the people.

    3. This forum is NOT the ultimate word in legal vs illegal and asking for minute details is not really a great exercise, because lets face it, it's the internet.
    However you can get EXCEPTIONAL advice here at poofa.

    Fourth. I only carry what I am prepared to lose. If I have to use my carry weapon, its GONE. Law enforcement will grab it in a minute and look for evidence and keep it until they get good and ready to. And not one minute before.

    I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately some LE don*t even know the difference between AR pistol and AR rifle. Because of your last advice I decided to go with a very old but functioning reliable crappy 16 inch barrel rifle, so if I loose it , then I wouldn*t be as upsat. But having it in a zipper gun case with magazines in outside pouch makes things slow and difficult specially since the lock box is small and with soft case the fit is very very thight.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Recruits to PDs are drawn from the sissified populace of the times. Many never held a gun until they got into the academy. It's not their fault that Mommy and Daddy refused to allow toy guns let alone real ones. Anyone here attended a police academy recently? Are they teaching the bill of rights? Gun law is so confusing we turn to specialty attorneys to sort it out, and even that may resolve to opinion.
    I doubt the academies have the time or the inclination to attempt gun education beyond reasons to arrest and how to avoid being shot to some extent.
    There are only two kinds of guns. Those I have and those I want.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Transporting a Firearms

    Quote Originally Posted by Rareman View Post
    Thanks for the info. The HB40 is the 2011 PA castle law where the definition of loaded rifle was augmented to include holsters and pouches. Here is a link https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS...B&billNbr=0040
    I think it starts at bottom of page 11 for unloaded rifle transport.
    I do have LTCF.
    Gotcha, that was the bill. Once the law is past you can read it here:https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L.../HTM/18/18.HTM

    If you scan it, you can find the updated definition in 2011 was for 6102 (title 61 chapter 2). Be aware that going off a Bill like that from 10 years ago isn't a great idea, because other legislation could have passed that reammended what is said in the law. It's always best to go to the actual crimes code, since it'll be the most updated info.

    Here's what the definition of loaded says in 6102 now:

    Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment
    .

    See the bold part is what I'm looking at. By the sound of your lock box setup, the mags would have to be in the "same compartment" even if they were cased up separately. I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind that's what I'm thinking. Decent job trying to research it by the way, just a few pointers for the future.

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