Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gouldsboro, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: Good article on Eastern coyotes and PA deer herd

    Quote Originally Posted by northny View Post
    The large coyote comment reminded me of a story. Probably a dozen years ago my hunting buddy saw what he felt was a wolf While hunting in NY a dozen mile from Canadian border. (He as a younger man had killed more than one wolf living out west).

    He asked the game warden if the state or feds had introduced wolves into NY. The reply was you didn*t see a wolf you saw a large coyote. My fried replied what he saw wasn*t in question, he again asked if they had introduced wolves into NY. Again the reply you saw a large coyote, no answer on the wolf question. After a third go around with the same result, my friend stated that based on the game wardens positive identification the next time we saw the *large coyote* we would shoot it.

    Suddenly the conversation became shoot all the coyotes you want, but it would be illegal to shot a protected wolf. The conversation was folded up by two calls from DEC ( regional and state) repeating that what he saw was a large coyote, there are no wolves in NY, but it would be illegal to shot a wolf.

    The large coyote was not scene again.

    Getting back on topic although I believe coyotes have a larger impact than the original article inferred, I agree that human predation is a much much larger impact. I*m a new resident of PA, but fifty years of experience in NY I only twice saw a horrific winter have a large impact on the deer herd. Mostly low deer numbers were due how state (mis)managed the herd locally.
    A transitory wolf near the Canadian border doesn't take a leap of faith to believe. Canada has Gray Wolf populations. However, kt is interbreeding between the two species that allows for some damn big coyote hybrids up north. I believe that Maine has recorded Eastern Coyotes in the 90 lb. range. And, if you weren't aware, Eastern Coyotes are all hybrids with varying percentages of western coyote, gray wolf and dog. In fact, if I recall a study that I read a couple years ago, genomic testing has shown that the only true wolf in North America is the gray wolf. All others are wolf/coyote hybrids.
    "How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessnes."

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Yardley, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Good article on Eastern coyotes and PA deer herd

    My belief is that the predation rate on fawns by coyotes is going to vary by area, driven mainly by small game and rodent numbers. You have an area that has a healthy small game population, I'm thinking the coyotes will leave deer alone as smaller bunnies and squirrels will make easier meals. When the food supply starts to get stretched, is when they'll start taking down the bigger, harder to catch/kill animals. Face it, most animals only want to exert just enough energy as necessary for survival.
    As for the deer population, I think the biggest issue is deer naturally gravitate to areas of less pressure. Suburban areas are literally no pressure with their biggest threats being cars, not hunters. Where there's more undeveloped acreage, again, they'll gravitate to areas of less pressure (such as private property). If a food source is near an area of hunting pressure, they'll adjust their schedules and move through those areas in the dark. Spend enough time in the woods. And you watch their patterns, you'll see it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Good article on Eastern coyotes and PA deer herd

    There are certainly natural swings and predator driven swings in the herd, but many people fail to see the swing caused by the economics of agriculture. Just like the change in no-til farming drove pheasant number towards 0, the loss of the small family farm on small rural plots across PA has reduced the availability of the *fast food* that drove the numbers up when our parents and grandparents hunted (We all know an acre of corn or beans supports multiple times the number of deer an acre of woods does). The amount of farmed land in PA has dropped substantially in parts of the state, as agribusiness has moved west (and north) to 10,000 acre plots, and trucking and rail become more economical for food movement. With yields consistently increasing, there is a decline in total acreage needed too.

    Based on the understory and crop damage, I*ll say we*ve still got an over abundance down here, but we have very few coyote and plenty of active farmland.

    As a parting thought, I once read there are four times more deer on the continent now then when it was settled. Go get a few!!
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Good article on Eastern coyotes and PA deer herd

    I wonder if there have ever been any studies done on how mountain lions affect the deer and coyote populations in PA.
    Accuse your enemy of what you are doing as you are doing it to create confusion -Karl Marx

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