Upcoming Classifieds Process and Rules Changes

[Emptymag]

How can I make the thread title "descriptive" if I am forced to list multiple items in the same listing?


WTS - Complete Colt 16" Upper w BCG and CH


(listing)

Never used - New in box Colt 16" Upper
(picture, picture, picture)
$600 Shipped


EDIT: (added 4 days later)
WTS - 3 D&H USGI mags - Used - Like new $25
Buyer pays shipping


EDIT: (added 12 days later)
WTS - Alien Gear Holster for Glock G19 - Like New $35




Who the hell is going to see the other two unrelated items I just "added" to a for sale ad for an AR15 upper???


Sure, I know... "Just edit the thread title".
Yeah, THAT will work really well.

"For Sale - A couple things that won't fit in the tread title, so you have to open this to look"

[danp]

I didn't notice that that is an option but even if it is, it won't advise folks as such and I'm not inclined to revisit for sale ads to see if they've changed.

The hope is that there will be a fewer total volume of threads to wade through.

I post in classified rarely (and no one buys my shit anyway), but man, I am COOOOOONFUSED. It seems like it will be REALLY EASY for a person to unintentionally violate these rules without maintaining some meticulous records as to what they've posted, and when.

The hope is that it will be much more objective: If you can find your post within the default forum settings, you can't post again, which can be objectively enforced by the software itself, versus having to do date/time math against recent post dates.

So...this creates an onus on the user to:

1). Before posting, review the section and see if they've posted anything in the last month in that section.

2). Only post one thing in a section per month....sort of locking out high-volume sellers (I'm not high volume, so doesn't affect me)?

3). Lean toward creating vague "for sale" thread titles because they've posted 30 things for sale in their post, since they can only post once per month.

Do I understand this correctly?

1). Yes, that is the idea.

2). The intention is not to lock out high-volume sellers, but simply to provide a more level playing field and allow low-volume sellers a chance at the front of the line without being immediately drowned out by people who are posting or bumping multiple threads constantly.

3). This would not be desirable, and I am hoping this does not happen. If it does, everyone will have my apologies and we will need to make adjustments.

Rather than generating an infraction - why not just prevent posting in the forum within the restriction period more than once? When a person goes to submit, decline with a message? Surely this must be reasonably possible? No?

Unfortunately I am not aware of any way to enforce this technically within the software, which is one of the downsides of using a discussion forum as a classifieds site, which has been a common theme.

Can you delete an existing thread for some other reason? For example - suppose you are selling VHS exercise tapes and 12 pound bowling balls in your thread...after 15 days, can you delete that thread and post another thread offering for sale some rusty hacksaws and used first aid kits?

The idea is that you would just repurpose your existing thread to sell new stuff, but you would still be within your 30 day window, giving everyone else the change to get their new listings at the top. This will have a small negative effect on high-volume sellers, but the goal is not to punsh them, just to balance things out between casual people and people using this site to move lots of items as a semi-business operation.

Also, Classifieds threads have always been able to be edited to change from WTS, etc to "[CLOSED]" and then later moved to the archive. I will talk with the team to make sure there is a way to handle this situation appropriately.

This is also why we are going to be pretty lax and understanding on rules enforcement while we work out all the kinks in the plan. The intention here is not to just start punishing people for fun

On an unrelated note - and maybe this belongs in the "ideas" forum....maybe you could consider creating a "Classifieds Member" section. Charge $50/year (or whatever) for the "frequent sellers" to get the privilege of better posting conditions? Or charge $1/bump or something. Make some revenue for you while you're improving the quality of the classifieds?

This is something we discussed but opted not to do for now. One day we may tie additional classifieds functionality to the existing subscriptions, a new kind, or more likely both. However our primary goal here is not to raise money, just to make the classifieds better.

With that said, since Google kicked us off our ad network a while back, it would certainly help PAFOA keep running if we could find a fair way to do something like this, but it's not today's priority.

Except that if you're 20 days in, and your post has already been read by someone, the fact that you've edited it to include more crap is probably going to go unnoticed.

We hope this isn't true, but if it is, we will adjust again.

This plan sounds like you*re just tired of moderating the classifieds and are going to end them.

Absolutely the opposite, the classifieds have become such a big part of the forum that I never expected and we know how valuable it is to have a local market where people can buy and sell items that are often easier to sell face-to-face. We want this to continue to be a place to do that, and we're trying.

[Emptymag]

Originally Posted by free
Except that if you're 20 days in, and your post has already been read by someone, the fact that you've edited it to include more crap is probably going to go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by danp
We hope this isn't true, but if it is, we will adjust again.


Free nailed it.

Hoping it isn't true won't help.
Nobody is going to "revisit" all the ad listings just to see if there's anything "new" added into each person's classified ad.

If I've looked at an ad for an item and found it of no value to me, why would I spend my time looking at it again two, ten, or thirteen days later to see if the person MAY have possibly added something new to THAT listing that I may be interested in?

[danp]

How can I make the thread title "descriptive" if I am forced to list multiple items in the same listing?


WTS - Complete Colt 16" Upper w BCG and CH


(listing)

Never used - New in box Colt 16" Upper
(picture, picture, picture)
$600 Shipped


EDIT: (added 4 days later)
WTS - 3 D&H USGI mags - Used - Like new $25
Buyer pays shipping


EDIT: (added 12 days later)
WTS - Alien Gear Holster for Glock G19 - Like New $35




Who the hell is going to see the other two unrelated items I just "added" to a for sale ad for an AR15 upper???


Sure, I know... "Just edit the thread title".
Yeah, THAT will work really well.

"For Sale - A couple things that won't fit in the tread title, so you have to open this to look"

One issue we identified is the changes to the way non-Firearms parts are merged into the "Firearms" section, we will be discussing this internally to see if it makes sense to go back to the "Firearms" section truly being functional firearms and serialized parts only.

I was not involved that change, so I want to make sure I understand it before suggesting we go back, but I think this may alleviate some of this problem.

Originally Posted by free
Except that if you're 20 days in, and your post has already been read by someone, the fact that you've edited it to include more crap is probably going to go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by danp
We hope this isn't true, but if it is, we will adjust again.


Free nailed it.

Hoping it isn't true won't help.

Watching how the changes work out in reality and adjusting as needed will.

If I've looked at an ad for an item and found it of no value to me, why would I spend my time looking at it again two, ten, or thirteen days later to see if the person MAY have possibly added something new to THAT listing that I may be interested in?

You wouldn't, the seller would have an incentive to edit their ad to update the title to include new things. Whether buyers want to re-scan the listings is up to them, the default view will now only include 30 days worth of threads, and there will only be one thread per user, so there will be many less threads to look through.

I hope

Give us a chance to see how this works out, it's not the end of the world.

[free]

I feel your pain (:

I think you stated the real issue when you mentioned using the discussion forum as a classifieds site.

I wonder if, in the longer term view of things, you might be better served by having a dedicated "for sale" site powered by software for that purpose, but "close it" so that PAFOA membership is required to use it, and use a SAML token from a PAFOA login to enforce it, and avoid people having to maintain separate logins, etc.

Does this forum software have any "door" concept, like BBS software had? Where you can "punch out" to something, do whatever, and then "close the door" to end up back where you left off in the forum?

[samuraipizzacat29]

So, I'm admittedly not very active in the forum but just spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out what was going on until I clicked the banner and read the thread. Figures because I've spent most of the last few weeks trying to get users to read the messages I send them about software updates in my daily life....

A few notes from my experience with the same:
1) This action will definitely reduce garbage. I was tired of seeing the same posts get bumped with posters unwilling to reduce prices or even add accurate descriptions. However, that is the reality of a public forum and the good must be taken with the bad
2) If this improves the usability of the search function I'm for it. The search was essentially unusable because no one was maintaining old posts and there were listings from days of yore that still hit for keywords
3) This will kill browsing. The most active users will always be towards the back of the list. Did I read that wrong? It blanketly penalizes the active contributors while promoting those that use the forum least by giving them the front page. Real question: If there is little to no post limit, can't users just create alternate accounts to hit the front page? If the goal is to use moderation resources wisely, there will be an increased load in moderating spam accounts.

I would like to inject some positivity because I really like what you're doing here and appreciate the willingness to change for the sake of improvement. That being said, the times I've seen this methodology employed it has served to squash the userbase. An alternative is to increase moderation of the sub-forums and provide warnings and penalties to users that violate the rules. That of course requires more moderation resources sooooooooooo.

Thank you for what you're doing and appreciate the communication.

[DK23]

One issue we identified is the changes to the way non-Firearms parts are merged into the "Firearms" section, we will be discussing this internally to see if it makes sense to go back to the "Firearms" section truly being functional firearms and serialized parts only.

I was not involved that change, so I want to make sure I understand it before suggesting we go back, but I think this may alleviate some of this problem.



Watching how the changes work out in reality and adjusting as needed will.



You wouldn't, the seller would have an incentive to edit their ad to update the title to include new things. Whether buyers want to re-scan the listings is up to them, the default view will now only include 30 days worth of threads, and there will only be one thread per user, so there will be many less threads to look through.

I hope

Give us a chance to see how this works out, it's not the end of the world.

Will editing a classified post move it to the top of the list or make it bold like it does now? If it moves it to the top, isn't this the same as 'bumping it'? If it doesn't bold the classified title when edited, I would suggest this so people will know it has been revised. Sometimes I'll see something posted that is more than I want to pay, but if it is edited with a price reduction, it would be nice if the post is highlighted as being changed so I can check back.

[staylo]

I*m thankful we*re looking at trying to do SOMETHING to help make the classified situation a little better. I do agree that ads that have been bumped for years have no business still being in the classifieds, and allowing them to remain adds no benefit to the users of the forum, and the current system allows that kind of activity with impunity.

Since we*re only allowed one post per category under the new rules, it would seem wise then to increase the number of categories by making them much more specific. Currently, we have *accessories and ammunition* lumped into one category. If I have an accessory to sell, and some ammunition, I*m forced to put those both into one category. If there was a thread for *ammunition*, and a thread for *accessories*, that would allow me to list both items separately, which would also be helpful for buyers searching listings for items they are shopping for. Even better would be to break *accessories* into multiple categories. You could have an *AR accessories* thread, and an *AK accessories* thread, and a *shotgun accessories* thread, and a *handgun* accessories thread, etc. It would make for a lot of threads, but it would also solve the issue of people being concerned about posting multiple items in single listings, and would be more beneficial to buyers to be able to target threads for shopping, rather than combing through a single flea market post. Just my thoughts. The one category I would exclude from that would be anything not firearm related. Since this is a firearms related forum, we should privilege classified posts of firearms related items, and non-firearm related *flea market* type items can just all go in one big thread. That too would solve a lot of the concerns that members who are dissatisfied with the current classifieds system would have, while addressing some of the concerns with the new strategy.

[Emptymag]

Will editing a classified post move it to the top of the list or make it bold like it does now? If it moves it to the top, isn't this the same as 'bumping it'? If it doesn't bold the classified title when edited, I would suggest this so people will know it has been revised. Sometimes I'll see something posted that is more than I want to pay, but if it is edited with a price reduction, it would be nice if the post is highlighted as being changed so I can check back.

No. Editing does not bump an ad. You can edit your ad now - as many times as needed - it doesn't bump the ad.
Only posting again will bump it.

[iMoses14]

Can we just leave the Classifieds as is and just add more moderators that are designated to ONLY CLASSIFIEDS to keep them clean or remove old stuff?

I have tons of stuff posted. I use this forum to sell and buy a lot. Have for the past 10 years or so. I find it easier to sell stuff when it*s listed as an individual listing vs a mass post with tons of stuff. So soon we*re gonna have 500 *Cleaning out the safe* listings.

When I*m listing stuff I notice ALOT of old, sold or closed listings that have been sitting for days. I will gladly help out in the classifieds section and delete or archive listings if that*s what it takes to keep things as is.

But, if 3 days is too much or too soon, make it 5 days.