Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    First, I'm skeptical about the hotel worker seeing stuff out in the open. Probably looking inside every bag and case and box in the room, looking for something to pilfer. Hotel jobs aren't the kinds of jobs people fear losing. Same thing applies to shipped packages that "just happened to burst open and dummy grenades fell out", which is still the fake story behind the Waco massacre.

    So, here's a question. Would the cops have any lawful probable cause to obtain a warrant to have searched the hotel room in the first place if the information for the tip to the cops was based on the unlawful search of the maid service?
    Sed ego sum homo indomitus

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandcut View Post
    So, here's a question. Would the cops have any lawful probable cause to obtain a warrant to have searched the hotel room in the first place if the information for the tip to the cops was based on the unlawful search of the maid service?
    As I understand it, yes.
    The Hostler

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    If the domestic who reported the gun entered the room acting as an agent of the police, illegal search. If the domestic made the observation and then reported it, not an illegal search.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  4. #24
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    Dec 2006
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandcut View Post
    So, here's a question. Would the cops have any lawful probable cause to obtain a warrant to have searched the hotel room in the first place if the information for the tip to the cops was based on the unlawful search of the maid service?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    If the domestic who reported the gun entered the room acting as an agent of the police, illegal search. If the domestic made the observation and then reported it, not an illegal search.
    This came up years ago in one of those "bad cases that make bad law". A burglar, allegedly acting on his own, just happened to burglarize the home of a serial pedophile. The burglar found all sorts of photos and whatever else those sick fucks keep as souvenirs. Dozens, scores of little victims revealed.

    The police were made aware, allegedly because the caught the burglar doing something else and he was willing to make a deal.

    Police either got a warrant on the strength of the illegally obtained evidence (whatever else you say, burglary is illegal), or else they just used what he stole against the homeowner.

    Given how often both police and criminals lie under oath (I've seen it personally), this creates a nullification of the 4th Amendment. Cops work a deal with a bad guy, he breaks in, gets the evidence, it's admissible as long as the burglar and the cops all say he was acting on his own.

    We can approve as long as it's a serial pedophile getting his rights trampled, but what will you say when they send a burglar in to check out your gun collection?

    As for the specific case of the guns by the window in the hotel room, it depends on where the guns really were. Out in the open, while the maid's job required her to be there? Sure, admissible as something, although I'm not sure what it's proof of. Were the guns contraband per se? Did he have them next to a steno pad marked "people who need to die"?
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Cops lie? This isn't the first time you have mentioned this. In my 33 years in the honorable profession I have never seen it. Accuracy and truth is the most important part of performance. Lose that, and the officer becomes useless for any future testimony.

    You have to keep in mind, police officers are not lawyers. They don't have an attorney's ability to scramble words to confuse the audience and paint things as being other things. If they lie, it is readily apparent. So why would they?

    It is the lawyers who created the fine print establishing an agreement to terms that no one can follow or understand, leaving the consumer with no option but to agree to contrivances opposing the advertised or presented benefits of the product or do without the product. I call that a lie.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    Cops lie? This isn't the first time you have mentioned this. In my 33 years in the honorable profession I have never seen it. Accuracy and truth is the most important part of performance. Lose that, and the officer becomes useless for any future testimony.

    You have to keep in mind, police officers are not lawyers. They don't have an attorney's ability to scramble words to confuse the audience and paint things as being other things. If they lie, it is readily apparent. So why would they?

    It is the lawyers who created the fine print establishing an agreement to terms that no one can follow or understand, leaving the consumer with no option but to agree to contrivances opposing the advertised or presented benefits of the product. I call that a lie.
    Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

    Had a cop testify, first, that he was given limited permission to look in the passenger side footwell of my client's vehicle, from where he saw in plain sight my client's switchblade on the upper surface of the driver-side visor.

    I produced the visor. Held it up about 4 feet to this left. Asked him if he could see what was on top of the visor. He could not. No plain view.

    On re-direct, the ADA got the same cop in the same trial to now testify that the same client had NOT given him the limited permission that he'd previously sworn to, but instead had given him unlimited permission to search the entire car.

    Nobody in the courtroom was surprised. Because it happens all the time. Cops lie. Defendants lie. Their moms lie. Expert witnesses lie.

    You don't have to take my word for it. The world watched the LAPD testi-lie in the OJ Simpson murder trial. They had searched OJ's home without a warrant, and they really wanted to get in the evidence they found. Problem is, it was inadmissible as the fruit of an illegal search, but would be admissible if it were found during a permissible presence. So they testified, with a straight face, that after Nicole had called the PD multiple times for domestic violence, after Nicole and her boyfriend were found beheaded miles away from OJ's house where Nicole didn't live, the LAPD jumped his fence and searched his house TO PROTECT OJ. There were "exigent circumstances". The violent ex-husband wasn't a suspect, oh no, the cops were concerned that whoever whacked Nicole was after OJ.

    That was a lie.

    I had a PA State trooper willing to prosecute a teen for shooting .22 caliber holes in his crazy neighbor's sheet metal trailer using a 9mm firearm. The trooper looked right in my face and told me "bullets shrink down like that".

    Anything to get a conviction.

    Lawyers don't lie in court. Not because we're better people, because lawyers don't make statements of fact in court, we present evidence and let others make statements. It's why lawyers don't place their hands on the Bible while working. (Well, that, plus the risk that we'd burst into flames).
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    LOL. I think "lie" is being given too much latitude, to include misconceptions, misinformations, mistaken perceptions et al.

    Every time I think of the OJ trial I think of how dumb Mark Furman was. If F. Lee Bailey had asked me if I had ever used the N word, it would have been obvious to me that Bailey had something on me and I'm going to need to admit it. The context clue was apparent. Still, Furman became the darling of the media as an expert to reel in when appropriate.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    ...Did he have them next to a steno pad marked "people who need to die"?
    That would, by necessity, be a pretty damn big pad...

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.



    I personally witnessed three Accuracy of Truthers lying under oath on the stand. These weren't differences of opinion or misperceptions, it was more cut from whole cloth type of stuff. I was only ever in court thee times.

    I’ve seen it personally not under oath as well.
    Accuse your enemy of what you are doing as you are doing it to create confusion -Karl Marx

  10. #30
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    Erie, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Hotel Worker ‘Averted Disaster’ Finding Loaded Rifle And Scope In Guest’s Room

    People start lying, as kids, and if they get away with it, they keep on lying, even if they know there are cameras.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

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