Carrying Long Guns in a Vehicle During Government Declarations

[gnbrotz]

Lots of people have incorrect "understandings". Is there some particular language, directly from law, that supports your understanding? What's your basis?

[knight0334]

I'd be thrilled if the part in red is incorrect. It was my understanding you cannot just drive around with a long gun in your trunk or vehicle unless it's to or from some lawful activity.

As for the magazines, I thought the "loaded" part was self evident.

Except within Philly or during a State of Emergency(for anywhere else in PA) - no LTCF is required to drive around with an UNLOADED long gun in your vehicle. At no time can a long gun be loaded in/on/upon a vehicle.

Outside of Philly and absent a SoE - you can carry a long gun openly or concealed(imagine, under a trenchcoat) without a LTCF.

PA law regulates the concealed/vehicle carrying of "firearms*" statewide, and the carrying(openly/concealed/vehicle) of ALL guns while on public property/domain within Philly and during a State of Emergency.



* Firearm = handgun with barrel under 15", rifle with barrel under 16", shotgun with barrel under 18", or any gun with an overall length under 26".

[V300]

@Knight thanks for the info. It has always been my understanding that a Pa LTCF doesn't cover long guns at all. Which is, again, why an AR pistol or similar is so useful in Pa, because your LTCF allows you to carry it loaded at all times in your vehicle. Which is also why everyone in Pa who seeks to carry a firearm to protect themself should get an LTCF if they can.

Just found this, seems to be very helpful/informative info:

https://firearmsindustryconsultinggr...ying-firearms/

As the link states, I would not expect any given cop in Pa to know any of these laws with any level of certainty. So again, I have always defaulted to advising everyone to get an LTCF just to avoid any unnecessary imperial entanglements.

[V300]

Lots of people have incorrect "understandings". Is there some particular language, directly from law, that supports your understanding? What's your basis?

I'm originally from Philly, so I (incorrectly it turns out) assumed that the Philly law was the same in the whole state. I know a couple people who were arrested in Philly for having an unloaded rifle in their trunk who admitted to keeping it there for protection, as opposed to transiting to some lawful activity.

[knight0334]

@Knight thanks for the info. It has always been my understanding that a Pa LTCF doesn't cover long guns at all. Which is, again, why an AR pistol or similar is so useful in Pa, because your LTCF allows you to carry it loaded at all times in your vehicle. Which is also why everyone in Pa who seeks to carry a firearm to protect themself should get an LTCF if they can.

Just found this, seems to be very helpful/informative info:

https://firearmsindustryconsultinggr...ying-firearms/

As the link states, I would not expect any given cop in Pa to know any of these laws with any level of certainty. So again, I have always defaulted to advising everyone to get an LTCF just to avoid any unnecessary imperial entanglements.

A LTCF does cover long guns in Philly and during State of Emergency. But never loaded long guns in vehicles.

[V300]

I didn't think an LTCF covered long guns at all, since a firearm and a long gun are two distinctly different things under Pa law.

Has it always been that way?

[knight0334]

I didn't think an LTCF covered long guns at all, since a firearm and a long gun are two distinctly different things under Pa law.

Has it always been that way?

Yes. There really hasn't been any major changes to the UFA since 1995.

§ 6107. Prohibited conduct during emergency.

(a) General rule.--No person shall carry a firearm upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency proclaimed by a State or municipal governmental executive unless that person is:

(1) Actively engaged in a defense of that person's life or property from peril or threat.

(2) Licensed to carry firearms under section 6109 (relating to licenses) or is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

(b) Seizure, taking and confiscation.--Except as otherwise provided under subsection (a) and notwithstanding the provisions of 35 Pa.C.S. Ch. 73 (relating to Commonwealth services) or any other provision of law to the contrary, no firearm, accessory or ammunition may be seized, taken or confiscated during an emergency unless the seizure, taking or confiscation would be authorized absent the emergency.

(c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Accessory." Any scope, sight, bipod, sling, light, magazine, clip or other related item that is attached to or necessary for the operation of a firearm.

"Firearm." The term includes any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any weapon.

(June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days; Oct. 17, 2008, P.L.1628, No.131, eff. 60 days)


----------------


§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.

No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:

(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or

(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).



Cross References. Section 6108 is referred to in section 6109 of this title.

[gnbrotz]

I'm originally from Philly, so I (incorrectly it turns out) assumed that the Philly law was the same in the whole state. I know a couple people who were arrested in Philly for having an unloaded rifle in their trunk who admitted to keeping it there for protection, as opposed to transiting to some lawful activity.

That explains it. While Philly is indeed different, it's important to understand it's because state law makes the distinction, not because of any measure passed by Philly government. They are bound by preemption, just like the rest of the state.

Also, the differences, as written in law, apply to any and all "cities of the first class", which is defined as a population of 1 million or more. Hypothetically, those measures could cease to apply in Philadelphia if the population plunged far enough, or begin to apply in Pittsburgh, if their population soared.

[gnbrotz]

Just want to provide an update from my end. I emailed PEMA to see what their interpretation is. They just responded today. Here is what I wrote, and their response:

Hello. My understanding is that all Governor Disaster/Emergency Proclamations now have a 21-day expiration unless approved for extension by the General Assembly. However, on the PEMA web page (https://www.pema.pa.gov/Governor-Pro...s/default.aspx), it shows that of the two proclamations that were issued or renewed by the Governor within the past 90-days, only the 5/20/21 COVID proclamation was terminated by concurrent resolution of the General Assembly. The 5/7/21 Opioid one was not updated on the PEMA website to show that it was also terminated. Are we currently under any Disaster/Emergency Proclamations, or have they all been ended? Thank you.

Good afternoon,
The Governor renewed the Opioid declaration on May 7, 2021. It is still active and will expire by operation of law on August 5, 2021.
Thank you,
Kira

OP, I would still argue that the opioid emergency should be long dead. While I can't understand the legality of it, it was again renewed on August 5th, but the legislature has publicly stated that the will not authorize its continuance past the 26th. I still believe it should have been invalid months ago, but it does appear that an end that PEMA will recognize is on the horizon.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/st...s/202108060104

[584_Mini]

OP, I would still argue that the opioid emergency should be long dead. While I can't understand the legality of it, it was again renewed on August 5th, but the legislature has publicly stated that the will not authorize its continuance past the 26th. I still believe it should have been invalid months ago, but it does appear that an end that PEMA will recognize is on the horizon.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/st...s/202108060104

Yes, and I am still arguing it... I was going to provide an update to this thread in a few days when I have more responses to the individuals and organizations I have contacted about this issue, in an effort to not over-update, for those on here who don't care, but since you brought it back up I'll share now.

I have been watching the PEMA site daily to see what Wolf would try and when I saw the renewal I sent the following communication to 21 people and organizations; legislators (the ones who were supporters and active with the constitutional amendments and HR106), pro 2A organizations, pro 2A YouTube content creators, etc.. This is the email I sent to each of them:

Subject Line:
Pennsylvania Governor Ignores/Violates Constitution with Most Recent State of Emergency Renewal?

Message Body:
For over three years, the Pennsylvania Governor has kept the Commonwealth in a perpetual "State of Emergency" by issuing and renewing various Emergency and Disaster Declarations for things like the Pandemic, the "Opioid Epidemic", perceived threats of Civil Unrest, and winter weather.

Pennsylvania is a 2A open-carry State, however during a State of Emergency, PA § 6107 (Prohibited Conduct During Emergency) takes effect. In a nutshell, PA § 6107 says that no person shall carry a firearm upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency proclaimed by a State or municipal governmental executive unless that person meets one of a handful of exceptions. For the average citizen who does NOT possess a License to Carry Firearms, but is otherwise legally allowed to possess a firearm, their 2A rights are confined to their domicile. This essentially suppresses open-carry.

In May-June 2021, people in the 2A community saw light at the end of the tunnel, as the PA Constitution was amended and gave authority to the General Assembly to terminate Emergency Declarations under certain circumstances. Previously, the Governor made an Emergency Declaration, it was in effect for 90-days, and then he would renew it every 90-days. Now, there is a different set of rules because the People of Pennsylvania adopted section 20(c) of Article IV of the Constitution of Pennsylvania which provides, in relevant part, "A disaster emergency declaration under subsection (a) shall be in effect for no more than twenty-one (21) days, unless otherwise extended in whole or part by concurrent resolution of the General Assembly".

Until 8/4/21, the most recent declaration was renewed on 5/7/21, which would end on 5/28/21. However, on the PEMA website (https://www.pema.pa.gov/Governor-Pro...s/default.aspx), the new language was never added to the 5/7/21 renewal, so I emailed PEMA to find out if they think the declarations are still in effect for 90-days, they basically informed me that it was still 90-days, which is contrary to the Constitutional amendment 21-day limit.

On 8/4/21, the Governor issued a renewal of the 5/7/21 declaration without the required concurrent resolution of the General Assembly. By doing so, it appears he is choosing to ignore 1) the fact that declarations are now only good for 21-days and 2) that renewals now require approval by the General Assembly. To me, the 8/4/21 renewal of the Opioid/State of Emergency appears to be illegal, unconstitutional and void.

I emailed both of my Representatives (Doug Mastriano and Torren Ecker) three times each, about this issue since the beginning of July but have not received a response from either. It's possible they are on "summer break" which I believe is until September in PA for the legislators.

Who will hold the Governor accountable and terminate this seemingly invalid declaration? How do you dial 911 on the Governor?[end of message body]

For now I am waiting for responses.