LTCF and car carry AR pistols

[HanzMcFeely]

Anyone know the legality of this? I want to say its legal, given its a pistol by definition, however being on an AR platform i suspect it might draw the wrong attention from some eager beaver LEO that doesnt know the law

[PickingPA]

Anyone know the legality of this? I want to say its legal, given its a pistol by definition, however being on an AR platform i suspect it might draw the wrong attention from some eager beaver LEO that doesnt know the law

Correct

[DK23]

Correct

Perfect reply.

[HanzMcFeely]

Hoping one of our resident law dogs can chime in here...

I mean, with a pistol brace on it, its pretty obvious that its not an SBR...

[PickingPA]

Hoping one of our resident law dogs can chime in here...

I mean, with a pistol brace on it, its pretty obvious that its not an SBR...

Like I said, your assumptions in the OP are correct

It is a pistol which, like any handgun, can be carried loaded in a vehicle as long as you have a valid LTCF.

But that doesn’t mean every cop knows firearms laws very well, few do.

[Xringshooter]

Hoping one of our resident law dogs can chime in here...

I mean, with a pistol brace on it, its pretty obvious that its not an SBR...

Do not assume this^^^, if you put a SBR and a AR pistol with certain types of braces on it, side by side, the average person and maybe even the AVERAGE gun owner would, without any prompting, probably say they were the same. Then when you explain, they will say, "Well, they both have short barrels and they both have what looks like a stock so they both "look" the same to me". Do not assume the average firearm owner knows the difference, remember they may only own one or two guns, do not regularly practice with them and don't follow the industry or even really know the laws.

[HanzMcFeely]

Do not assume this^^^, if you put a SBR and a AR pistol with certain types of braces on it, side by side, the average person and maybe even the AVERAGE gun owner would, without any prompting, probably say they were the same. Then when you explain, they will say, "Well, they both have short barrels and they both have what looks like a stock so they both "look" the same to me". Do not assume the average firearm owner knows the difference, remember they may only own one or two guns, do not regularly practice with them and don't follow the industry or even really know the laws.

An SBA3 for example, having the velcro strap i can see not being mistaken. A KAK shockwave OTOH looks a lot like it could be a normal stock.

Thats kinda what i was getting at with the whole attracting the wrong kind of attention from an LEO.

Well concealed but within easy reach, like under the seat, it shouldnt be an issue. Since PA isnt a duty to inform state, i can legally say nothing when asked if there are any weapons in the car.

[Xringshooter]

An SBA3 for example, having the velcro strap i can see not being mistaken. A KAK shockwave OTOH looks a lot like it could be a normal stock.

Thats kinda what i was getting at with the whole attracting the wrong kind of attention from an LEO.

Well concealed but within easy reach, like under the seat, it shouldnt be an issue. Since PA isnt a duty to inform state, i can legally say nothing when asked if there are any weapons in the car.

Sorry to say, but you are mistaken about "An SBA3 for example, having the velcro strap i can see not being mistaken" Wrap and secure the velcro strap around the brace and the average person/LEO or even gun owner, at a glance will think it is a shoulder fired firearm. I dare say even an above average gun owner, from even a slight distance, would say it is a shoulder fired firearm (they actually would say gun, not firerarm).

I've been around guns since I was 8 and have been a FFL since 1987 and you woud be surprised how many "gun owners" really don't know that much about firearms and I believe that I can just about guarentee that if you laid an AR syle SBR and a braced AR pistol side by side and had a gun owner look at them from a distance of 3 feet with no prompting they would say they are basically the same. I have gun ownwers that are knowlwdgeble and I have known them for a number of years come in the shop and when I show them a AR made from a 80% lower and ask them to tell me what they see, they never (at first look at all sides, front, back, etc.) never mention that it has no markings on it. Then I ask them to look closer and look for something out of place. Many still don't catch the no markings.

So, don't think that the average person. LEO or gun owner will ever notice the difference. They will however, probably notice the difference if you show them an SBR and a AR Pistol with only the buffer tube (or for a piston model the lack of a buffer tube) but I'd hazard a guess that 75%+ would say "Where's the stock (or shoulder stock, or butt stock)?"

No matter what, if you were stopped by a LEO and they saw the AR pistol, and had questions, you could explain it but it might be better to get them to call in a supervisor who knows firearms (but maybe not depending on where you are). If it's a good LEO they will probably listen to your explanation and then ask questions to you or the station personnel. If it's a hyper LEO, or inexperienced or in a bigger city, you're probably going to have a bit harder time.

Personally, if I were in my truck with one of my AR pistols, it would be either under the seat or covered with something that doesn't make it look like I'm obviously trying to hide something.

[45Doll]

Which is why I carry a copy of the completed PICS Record Of Sale with me (stamped "COPY") that shows the serial number and the fact that its a handgun. It clearly shows that it's a 'pistol or revolver with a barrel length of less than 15 inches'.

[HanzMcFeely]

Sorry to say, but you are mistaken about "An SBA3 for example, having the velcro strap i can see not being mistaken" Wrap and secure the velcro strap around the brace and the average person/LEO or even gun owner, at a glance will think it is a shoulder fired firearm. I dare say even an above average gun owner, from even a slight distance, would say it is a shoulder fired firearm (they actually would say gun, not firerarm).

I've been around guns since I was 8 and have been a FFL since 1987 and you woud be surprised how many "gun owners" really don't know that much about firearms and I believe that I can just about guarentee that if you laid an AR syle SBR and a braced AR pistol side by side and had a gun owner look at them from a distance of 3 feet with no prompting they would say they are basically the same. I have gun ownwers that are knowlwdgeble and I have known them for a number of years come in the shop and when I show them a AR made from a 80% lower and ask them to tell me what they see, they never (at first look at all sides, front, back, etc.) never mention that it has no markings on it. Then I ask them to look closer and look for something out of place. Many still don't catch the no markings.

So, don't think that the average person. LEO or gun owner will ever notice the difference. They will however, probably notice the difference if you show them an SBR and a AR Pistol with only the buffer tube (or for a piston model the lack of a buffer tube) but I'd hazard a guess that 75%+ would say "Where's the stock (or shoulder stock, or butt stock)?"

No matter what, if you were stopped by a LEO and they saw the AR pistol, and had questions, you could explain it but it might be better to get them to call in a supervisor who knows firearms (but maybe not depending on where you are). If it's a good LEO they will probably listen to your explanation and then ask questions to you or the station personnel. If it's a hyper LEO, or inexperienced or in a bigger city, you're probably going to have a bit harder time.

Personally, if I were in my truck with one of my AR pistols, it would be either under the seat or covered with something that doesn't make it look like I'm obviously trying to hide something.

Thanks Ron. I get what you are saying.

Which is why I carry a copy of the completed PICS Record Of Sale with me (stamped "COPY") that shows the serial number and the fact that its a handgun. It clearly shows that it's a 'pistol or revolver with a barrel length of less than 15 inches'.

Problem becomes if you built it yourself out of a receiver set. Then the record of sale states “other”...