Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    So i understand each fills a different role and are each legal on their own.

    As i understand:

    The FRT accomplishes its faster rate of fire by forcing reset on an already light trigger (ergo pseudo FA if one decided to use the trigger “incorrectly”). No way to overcome this with the safety selector like a binary setup. Legal under ATF

    The binary trigger is a pull release and fires one round on each stroke while in binary mode to accomplish faster followup shots/fire rates (again, arguably pseudo FA once you get the rhythm down). Legal under ATF

    Now comes the tricky part: what happens to legality if you combine them, and create say...a forced reset binary trigger? Would it be classified as a full auto FCG? Would it even be possible? I would imagine the timing would be a nightmare to dial in.

    Its still technically semi auto pull release trigger, but now has forced reset to aid in faster firing (only in binary mode. SA would just be forced reset). But this would effectively simulate select fire correct?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    Some things are better left "unasked", OR you could submit your question in writing to the Firearms technology branch of the ATF for an opinion that will be changed at their whim. That always works out well
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    Some things are better left "unasked", OR you could submit your question in writing to the Firearms technology branch of the ATF for an opinion that will be changed at their whim. That always works out well
    Kinda what i figured. the guy behind the counter at the fun shop brought it up yesterday and made me curious is all. Stupidly enough, in front of the PSP guy that showed up from PICS

    From an engineering standpoint, its a neat idea. IANAL, but going by ATF opinions on both systems, it should be legal as you are still only firing one shot per operation of the trigger (as its a binary setup). The forced reset just allows one to operate the trigger faster, therefore combined it would double the rate of fire of the binary trigger by allowing it to reset both “stages” faster.

    Kind of similar to using the autoglove with a binary trigger...
    Last edited by Woodwanderer; April 29th, 2021 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    The ATF isnt issuing opinion letters on accessories and parts anymore, as far as I know. Since that hasn’t worked out so well for them.

    As far as I know the ATF has not blessed the FRT.

    The FRT really doesn’t have any room for improvement. Have you tried one?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    The frt already uses a sear to release the hammer once the bolt is closed so adding stuff to the trigger wouldnt gain you anything. Rounds per minute is set by how long it takes the action to cycle, it's possible to get too fast on a trigger and out run the bolt ending up with misfires and jams

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    I havent tried either yet. I’ve only watched the videos and heard from guys who have run them.

    From what i understand a BFS/echo takes a lot of practice to get a rhythym down for rapid fire.

    The FRT was recommended to me by the guy at the indoor range and looks interesting.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    I have a Franklin BFS and it's easy to outrun. I supposed if I took the time to tune everything up with buffers, springs, and gas settings it might get to the point where I can't out run it but, I have neither the time, nor the money to waste on such a project. It shines doing double taps and that's fine by me. *It is a real friggin hoot to swap out my .223 bolt and put in my CMMG .22lr conversion and rock & roll.

    Supposedly the Echo has mechanics that prevent outrunning it, but I think it costs more.

    This is the first I'm hearing about the FRT and now I have to go look for some videos ;-)

    Found a few, but this one is noteworthy

    Last edited by ExFlyinguy; April 30th, 2021 at 12:37 PM.
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    Sheesh that guy makes it seem so complicated. Drop it in, apply light pressure, and enjoy. The mod to chamfer the bottom of the spring retaining pocket completely solves the spring issue.

    If you get one you will yeet your binary trigger into the spare parts bin and forget about it.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    Make sure you buy your FRT at a gunshow and pay cash. No way these are staying legal. From the little I read instead of tripping the sear the M-16 carrier bumps the trigger forward and resets the trigger. Sorry this will never fly with the NFA definition of full auto as more than one shot per pull of the trigger. You pull the trigger once and keep pressure on the trigger (still one pull) then the rifle shoot auto.

    I know many here will disagree with the ATF working and technicalities so if you feel strongly these are legal contact the manufacturer and become a distributor. I will personally meet in some parking lot and buy 2 (with cash) and I am sure many other Poofa members will too. You could make a fortune.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Questions about FRT15, binary triggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshIronshaft View Post
    Sheesh that guy makes it seem so complicated. Drop it in, apply light pressure, and enjoy. The mod to chamfer the bottom of the spring retaining pocket completely solves the spring issue.

    If you get one you will yeet your binary trigger into the spare parts bin and forget about it.
    I would without hesitation use my BFS trigger in a defensive situation, after watching that guy's video, and reading many other reviews there is no way in hell I would trust this trigger. The company won't even warranty them

    Quote Originally Posted by Delkal View Post
    Make sure you buy your FRT at a gunshow and pay cash. No way these are staying legal. From the little I read instead of tripping the sear the M-16 carrier bumps the trigger forward and resets the trigger. Sorry this will never fly with the NFA definition of full auto as more than one shot per pull of the trigger. You pull the trigger once and keep pressure on the trigger (still one pull) then the rifle shoot auto.

    I know many here will disagree with the ATF working and technicalities so if you feel strongly these are legal contact the manufacturer and become a distributor. I will personally meet in some parking lot and buy 2 (with cash) and I am sure many other Poofa members will too. You could make a fortune.
    I saw one today listed in our classifieds
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

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