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Thread: 22LR Carry

  1. #111
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by bugout View Post
    go back in the thread and look at ellifritz's data

    go back in the thread read the news article about the 22lr vs 357mag gunfight where 22lr won due to faster on target/ better shot placement....

    not saying always the case, but it has happened and it is cited.

    also go back in the thread and read how in the first original post i said my normal carry is a 9mm revolver but for summer months i have - occassionally for low probability encounters - carried 22
    No offense, but the Ellifritz article does NOT advise using .22 for self defense.

    First of all, where did that data come from? Why no link to the source and methods? And he notes that the data mixes police and civilian shootings. Police and civilian gunfights are very different, and police don't use .22's.

    Second, the data shows that "The .22 required the least number of shots to stop an attacker as compared to the other cartridges." Is there any plausible explanation why .22 would be BETTER at stopping an attack? Or is this just bad data?

    Third, if you really trust his data, then think about this: .22 failed to stop the attacker in TWO TO THREE TIMES as many attacks as the larger calibers. That is a stunning failure, isn't it?

    If anything, your link is a slam-dunk against .22 for self defense. Failing to stop the attack in 2X to 3X as many cases? Wow. Just wow.

  2. #112
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by bugout View Post
    go back in the thread and look at ellifritz's data

    go back in the thread read the news article about the 22lr vs 357mag gunfight where 22lr won due to faster on target/ better shot placement....

    not saying always the case, but it has happened and it is cited.

    also go back in the thread and read how in the first original post i said my normal carry is a 9mm revolver but for summer months i have - occassionally for low probability encounters - carried 22
    I'm sorry, but this 357 vs 22 example is absurd.
    I will not be backing it up with examples, or data, because none is needed.
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  3. #113
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    No offense, but the Ellifritz article does NOT advise using .22 for self defense.

    First of all, where did that data come from? Why no link to the source and methods? And he notes that the data mixes police and civilian shootings. Police and civilian gunfights are very different, and police don't use .22's.

    Second, the data shows that "The .22 required the least number of shots to stop an attacker as compared to the other cartridges." Is there any plausible explanation why .22 would be BETTER at stopping an attack? Or is this just bad data?

    Third, if you really trust his data, then think about this: .22 failed to stop the attacker in TWO TO THREE TIMES as many attacks as the larger calibers. That is a stunning failure, isn't it?

    If anything, your link is a slam-dunk against .22 for self defense. Failing to stop the attack in 2X to 3X as many cases? Wow. Just wow.
    i didnt say ellifritz advised using 22lr, in fact i was the only one who pointed out that he wrote a follow up article with discussion about short-comings of 22lr.

    point 1 - you are answering your own question in what the data was comprised of, FBI and tracked and recorded armed encounters from archives spanning years - if you google him the data source he used is there. are you suggesting it is made up? and yes i know police and civilian shootings are different and again i was the first one to point that out as well when i posted the link to the ellifritz and usconcealcarry article that discusses the difference and why it is relevant.

    second point - shot placement. period. that is the reason and again it is supported - hypothetically shoot yourself in the temple w a 22 and see what happens.

    third point - that is an excellent point and precisely why i have not sold all my 9 and 45 carry ammo and guns; and is also why i only consider 22lr for summer carry, low probability scenarios.

    slam dunk? not for the documented dead put down by 22lr.
    ALSO that is 1 shot... 1 shot. do you think the probability increases or decreases as more 22lr is fired into an attacker?

    way to parrot my comments and repeat things i already said and linked to but something new wouldve nice.

    wow just wow...
    Last edited by bugout; May 5th, 2021 at 08:39 PM.

  4. #114
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    I'm sorry, but this 357 vs 22 example is absurd.
    I will not be backing it up with examples, or data, because none is needed.
    understand but interesting debate about what matters most... accurate fast shots on target vs caliber. not sure myself.

    and once again it was a real life event; both scored hits but the 22lr walked away due to shot placement.
    Last edited by bugout; May 5th, 2021 at 08:59 PM.

  5. #115
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Flip the script, for a moment...

    If you were the BG, would you rather face-off with a person with a NAA .22, or a person with a knife?

  6. #116
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    Flip the script, for a moment...

    If you were the BG, would you rather face-off with a person with a NAA .22, or a person with a knife?
    why specifically a NAA? just curious. hard question to answer - are we set on ending them, robbing them...? are they big, small, unsure vs aggressive? very hard question.

    blind answer... the NAA can do harm at distance, the knife not - unless they can throw (crazy).

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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by bugout View Post
    why specifically a NAA? just curious. hard question to answer - are we set on ending them, robbing them...? are they big, small, unsure vs aggressive? very hard question.

    blind answer... the NAA can do harm at distance, the knife not - unless they can throw (crazy).
    An NAA was used recently, by an older gentleman, in response to some BLM antagonism.

    There was a brief moment in my life where I carried a NAA .22mag, in the sense that it was better than nothing.

    I have since decided that a sturdy knife is better than the NAA Black Widow.

    Why?

    Well, if you were a BG, attacking me, or otherwise causing the threat of death, or serious bodily harm to people in the immediate area... would you rather I defend with a NAA 5-shot .22, or a sturdy blade?

    Obviously, it would be VERY situation dependent, but I think the blade comes out on top more often than not.

    YMMV

  8. #118
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    An NAA was used recently, by an older gentleman, in response to some BLM antagonism.

    There was a brief moment in my life where I carried a NAA .22mag, in the sense that it was better than nothing.

    I have since decided that a sturdy knife is better than the NAA Black Widow.

    Why?

    Well, if you were a BG, attacking me, or otherwise causing the threat of death, or serious bodily harm to people in the immediate area... would you rather I defend with a NAA 5-shot .22, or a sturdy blade?

    Obviously, it would be VERY situation dependent, but I think the blade comes out on top more often than not.

    YMMV
    I'd be worried I'd have to convince the attacker that it's a real gun.

  9. #119
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnes View Post
    An NAA was used recently, by an older gentleman, in response to some BLM antagonism.

    There was a brief moment in my life where I carried a NAA .22mag, in the sense that it was better than nothing.

    I have since decided that a sturdy knife is better than the NAA Black Widow.

    Why?

    Well, if you were a BG, attacking me, or otherwise causing the threat of death, or serious bodily harm to people in the immediate area... would you rather I defend with a NAA 5-shot .22, or a sturdy blade?

    Obviously, it would be VERY situation dependent, but I think the blade comes out on top more often than not.

    YMMV
    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    I'd be worried I'd have to convince the attacker that it's a real gun.
    Well , I used to carry a Freedom Arms .22 mini-revolver as a 'back-up' of sorts. I never harbored any delusions of getting into a gunfight with it , but it does have the advantage of distance over a blade.

    And thought it's debatable which is worse , it's bark or it's bite , all but the most seriously bad-azz mo-fu is gonna advance after it did bark (or yipe?)! Then ya got 4 left to stick in his ear.
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  10. #120
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    Default Re: 22LR Carry

    Sounds like the main argument is I can't shoot very well so a 22 will be more accurate. Why not learn to shoot a larger caliber as well as a 22? The only 22 i would trust would be a Ruger or a Buckmark. Not really practical to carry. The ammo is also garbage. Maybe some of the high end stuff would be better but the bulk ammo is always misfiring. I just don't think it makes sense to carry a 22 unless it's all you have or you have some kind of disability preventing you from shooting something bigger.

    It also doesn't matter since none of us couch commandos are getting in a gunfight anytime soon.
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