22LR Carry

**scruff** · May 8th, 2021, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by bugout

i never said 22 is better at one stop shots, never.
the data said that and i actually said i agree that it is hard to believe but it is documented and most of this thread i have been asking again and again for more actual data to evaluate it against - rather than one-liners... but smarty one-liners kept coming, not the data.

then - finally - yoder posted that a study might be found on JAMA; and in typical fashion only i took the time to find it and post it for further discussion. it refutes - does not defeat - ellifritz's data... im trying restraint here but you do not at all read what i actually write.

the LEO data does not at all skew the data... their numbers are included, are you saying that somehow the first shot from a cop's gun doesnt count or that they are trained to shoot extremities first and then head/torso? because that would be the ONLY way their inclusion would skew the data.

OF COURSE it skews the data. Since cops aren't trained to take a single shot, a large portion of the large-bore shooters are not attempting single-shot stops. This causes the .22 shooters to be vastly overrepresented in the group that IS attempting single-shot stops. Therefore, the percentage of single-shot stops achieved with a .22 is artificially high.

And that's the problem with this whole thread. You're trying to figure out a complex issue with no analysis beyond taking the raw numbers of one data set at face value. You didn't know about the police training issue. How many other factors do we not know about?

You aren't going to convince me. I'll be convinced when I hear it from Massad Ayoob and other experts. But go ahead, carry on with your words of wisdom. I'm out.

**bugout** · May 8th, 2021, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by scruff

OF COURSE it skews the data. Since cops aren't trained to take a single shot, a large portion of the large-bore shooters are not attempting single-shot stops. This causes the .22 shooters to be vastly overrepresented in the group that IS attempting single-shot stops. Therefore, the percentage of single-shot stops achieved with a .22 is artificially high.

And that's the problem with this whole thread. You're trying to figure out a complex issue with no analysis beyond taking the raw numbers of one data set at face value. You didn't know about the police training issue. How many other factors do we not know about?

You aren't going to convince me. I'll be convinced when I hear it from Massad Ayoob and other experts. But go ahead, carry on with your words of wisdom. I'm out.

no one was attempting a one stop shot.
thanks for your input.

**scruff** · May 8th, 2021, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by bugout

no one was attempting a one stop shot.
thanks for your input.

Pardon my fucking English. Scratch "attempted a one-stop shot". Let's just say "Those who stopped an attack with one shot". Which doesn't include police, because they don't take just one shot.

You cry that people won't debate up to your lofty standards, and then you evade, deflect, and play childish word games. Everyone is dumber for reading this thread, myself included.

**Emptymag** · May 9th, 2021, 12:12 AM

**scruff** · May 9th, 2021, 12:22 AM

**bugout** · May 9th, 2021, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by scruff

Pardon my fucking English. Scratch "attempted a one-stop shot". Let's just say "Those who stopped an attack with one shot". Which doesn't include police, because they don't take just one shot.

You cry that people won't debate up to your lofty standards, and then you evade, deflect, and play childish word games. Everyone is dumber for reading this thread, myself included.

it is not a childish word game to say that your interpretation of the data is wrong/ i then prove it/ and disagree; bc even IF your interpretation is correct - cops only use 9mm for the given dataset - so when you expand the scope to look at 380, 45acp, 44, 357mag/ 38spl, etc. why do the non-police larger-than-22 calibers still trend under? the answer is bc your interpretation is flawed to me; else another larger, non-police issue caliber would surface/ rise in the grading.

it also continues to be funny to me that the mods flag me for harassment, personal attacks against you specifically when you skate the line on every response and literally meet the definition "repeated, unwanted behavior"... but you are a fun antagonist.

ALSO... i only cry that no one gives data, studies, actual shootings to add to the discussion/ back their point - it is there in the posts; again you misrepresent what i have actually said.

**bugout** · May 9th, 2021, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by scruff

i do love that show

look i will restate i do not think 22 is the ideal SD caliber AND - as several have stated esp if you can shoot 9mm et al well/ effectively. but i will say again, it is viable and not as anemic nor poor a choice as the one-liners want it to be, it is plenty lethal and even the conflicting JAMA data shows that.