Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Lower Bucks County
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    For the record, Sheriff Benedict says he is pro-2A, and I believe him. While his refusal to accept non-resident applications is clearly unlawful, his reasons for doing so (briefly, he is unable to conduct background checks he considers sufficient, for non-residents) are not entirely without merit. And, twice now, when challenged regarding an unlawful policy, he has acquiesced. Furthermore, the fact that he has repeatedly taken the time to listen and respond to my concerns is a very good thing. I wish he would follow the law to the letter, but I understand why he has taken the positions he has.
    No offense, but this type of attitude is part of the reason this country is where it is currently regarding the 2nd amendment.
    First of all, he's not pro 2a if this is his position and clearly his behavior reflects that. I say this because we all know that "licenses" and "permits" to carry a firearm are unconstitutional infringements of the 2a, hence why so many states are correctly changing over to constitutional carry. With that in mind, any CLEO who would not only go above, but beyond the law, chose to willfully ignore it (as you stated, he was educated about this in 2016, and it was still an issue now) is no better than Feinstein trying to ban "assault weapons." There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for a CLEO to try and restrict the right of the people to bear arms regardless of their reasoning. He doesn't "feel" like he can research people enough to "sign off"? Too friggin bad, the law says otherwise, and his job is to follow the law, period, end of story. If he wants to interpret the law, he can become a judge. If he wants to study the law, a lawyer. If he wants to change the law as he is doing, he can become a member of the legislative branch. This is a democracy, whether he likes it or not.
    If he was truly pro 2a, he'd be doing his best to pump out as many LTCF as he could, as fast as he could, with as few denials as lawfully possible. That's all there is to it. Unfortunately he doesn't have the power to declare his jurisdiction doesn't require a LTCF, which would be the TRUE pro 2a thing to do; but by that same logic, he damn sure isn't allowed to add additional requirements to applications or deny people based on a disbelief of the adequacy of PICS.

    Secondly, if anything, he deserves to be called out and confronted over this. We shouldn't feel thankful "he took the time to listen", he should be thankful someone with deep pockets isn't bringing a lawsuit against him, as people have done in the past with counties charging extra fees and requiring extra paperwork with app's. His actions are unlawful, and based on the history you gave, it's safe to assume he's planning to continue denials as I'm sure he's (rightfully) counting on NY residents not to know our laws as well as you do. His threats of doing something even more unlawful (maybe I'll just shut down NY permits altogether) make this even worse. DO YOUR FREAKING JOB, FUDD. You don't get to interpret the law. You get to follow and enforce it. Period, end of story. If he wants to pretend PA is a "may issue" shithole like PRNJ or PRNY, he can move there and get his rocks off deciding to deny law abiding citizens at will of their constitutional rights. But here in PA, part of his job is to receive LTCF applications without ANY OTHER ADDED PAPERWORK, process them, and issue the LTCF unless there's a lawful reason not to. He doesn't get to just decide "I don't think the system is strong enough so I won't follow it."
    Genesis 27:3
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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    ..., Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    I have not been recording these encounters, though, after this most recent one, I was thinking I probably should have been (I am aware of the two-party consent requirement).

    It's a double-edged sword. Recording would definitely be wise to (hopefully) protect my ass from a truly criminal sheriff who would make things up (note: I do NOT consider Lance Benedict to be one such person). And it could be useful in terms of evidence. But at the same time, recording could put the sheriff on edge and make him less willing to even have a discussion in the first place, or make the discussions notably less productive. Keep in mind that I've had two such discussions with this sheriff, and both times there were productive, albeit imperfect, outcomes.

    FYI although Pennsylvania law requires consent in recording all persons, that recumbent does not apply when recording government officials in the performance of their official duties.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A= View Post
    FYI although Pennsylvania law requires consent in recording all persons, that recumbent does not apply when recording government officials in the performance of their official duties.
    I agree, but I am unaware of a clear line defining "government officials in the performance of their official duties." I bring this up specifically, because in 2017, a man in my county was convicted on 4 felony counts...2 "intercepting" and 2 "disclosing" the intercepted content based on recording phone conversations between himself and the Director of the local Tax Services Office.

    Absent any legal clarification, my own interpretation as a juror would have been to vote "not guilty" on those charges, as a person in such a position certainly meets the exemption in my mind.
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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Montco, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    I agree, but I am unaware of a clear line defining "government officials in the performance of their official duties." I bring this up specifically, because in 2017, a man in my county was convicted on 4 felony counts...2 "intercepting" and 2 "disclosing" the intercepted content based on recording phone conversations between himself and the Director of the local Tax Services Office.

    Absent any legal clarification, my own interpretation as a juror would have been to vote "not guilty" on those charges, as a person in such a position certainly meets the exemption in my mind.
    There is a real easy solution. "I am recording this call for my protection", or "I am recording this interaction for our protection." PA law only states that in cases where the wiretapping law applies that the other parties be notified. You don't need their permission, only need to inform them of the recording*.

    *IANAL - although I'm pretty sure Phil Gunlawyer has stated this several times. Note that if you are on private property and you tell somebody you are recording, and they tell you to GTFO... then you must leave.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    53
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Royinmontco View Post
    There is a real easy solution. "I am recording this call for my protection", or "I am recording this interaction for our protection." PA law only states that in cases where the wiretapping law applies that the other parties be notified. You don't need their permission, only need to inform them of the recording*.

    *IANAL - although I'm pretty sure Phil Gunlawyer has stated this several times. Note that if you are on private property and you tell somebody you are recording, and they tell you to GTFO... then you must leave.
    The problem with that is, the other party will hang up, which is fine if it's 2 private citizens. Government officials can't refuse to serve or converse with their constituents because they don't like being recorded. Of course, many still would if given the chance ("Sue me if you don't like it"), thus the exception. They should work under the assumption that they are always being recorded, when acting in their official capacity.
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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Eastern Panhandle, West Virginia
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    I'm not understanding the sheriff's position either. Can't he simply call up the NY county where the OP has a permit, verify it's legit and move on?

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