Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseSA40 View Post
    Thank you for posting.
    Thank you for taking a stand.

    A question that I ask folks in these "situations" --- Are you recording these in-person oral conversations with elected officials (the Sheriff), and county LE employees paid with TAX money?

    Please don't answer if it hinders the progress you're trying to make. If you're not, discuss with a lawyer before doing so.
    I have not been recording these encounters, though, after this most recent one, I was thinking I probably should have been (I am aware of the two-party consent requirement).

    It's a double-edged sword. Recording would definitely be wise to (hopefully) protect my ass from a truly criminal sheriff who would make things up (note: I do NOT consider Lance Benedict to be one such person). And it could be useful in terms of evidence. But at the same time, recording could put the sheriff on edge and make him less willing to even have a discussion in the first place, or make the discussions notably less productive. Keep in mind that I've had two such discussions with this sheriff, and both times there were productive, albeit imperfect, outcomes.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    I suppose you have your reasons, but why not just GTFO of PRNY, or do you just prefer high taxes and tyrannical government?
    "Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Gman106
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face." - Mike Tyson
    "Get the hell out of my way." - John Galt

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    Don't they run the same basic background check on a non-resident as is done on a PA resident? I don't understand the Sheriff's argument.
    Yes, just a PICS check I believe.

    Not defending the sheriff's position, but I will try to relay his concerns as he has expressed them to me over the years. Many of these can be answered by asking the question "...but do you do that for residents?":

    1. He has no insight into the criminal history of non-resident applicants, and no way to dig deeper.

    2. He has no insight into mental health issues of non-resident applicants, and no way to dig deeper.

    3. He is never informed of life events. Recently a widow contacted him in tears because he sent a renewal notice for her dead husband.

    4. He has no way of being informed of criminal activity that should result in LTCF revocation/suspension.

    5. He has no way of being informed of things like residency or address changes.

    6. Something about office staffing levels and COVID.

    ------------------

    Again, not defending his position, just relaying what he stated to me as best I can.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    I suppose you have your reasons, but why not just GTFO of PRNY, or do you just prefer high taxes and tyrannical government?
    I do not think tucking tail and running is a solution. It kicks the can down the road. Sure, things get easier for me, but then my children and grandchildren have to deal with the issues that I shirked away from. Right now, I think there is more value in trying to push back on states like NY than there is trying to hold on to the ever-diminishing freedoms we have in PA.

    If nothing else, consider that the paradigm of a tyrannical state is spreading... PA looks a lot more purple than red now, ya know? North Carolina and Virginia used to be strong 2A states, not so much anymore. Hell, consider that we're having this conversation in a thread talking about a sheriff in a free state who is refusing to follow the law - actually, an entire group of sheriffs.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    I do not think tucking tail and running is a solution. It kicks the can down the road. Sure, things get easier for me, but then my children and grandchildren have to deal with the issues that I shirked away from. Right now, I think there is more value in trying to push back on states like NY than there is trying to hold on to the ever-diminishing freedoms we have in PA.

    If nothing else, consider that the paradigm of a tyrannical state is spreading... PA looks a lot more purple than red now, ya know? North Carolina and Virginia used to be strong 2A states, not so much anymore. Hell, consider that we're having this conversation in a thread talking about a sheriff in a free state who is refusing to follow the law - actually, an entire group of sheriffs.
    There's something called "The Free State Project" which is a grass roots movement to have conservatives move en masse to New Hampshire to turn the state solidly Red. Not sure how that's going right now but it has a fighting chance. New York? Never. Sometimes, you just gotta know when to fish and when to cut bait. Best you could hope for as a state is jettisoning NYC but that's realistically never gonna happen.
    "Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Gman106
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face." - Mike Tyson
    "Get the hell out of my way." - John Galt

  6. #16
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    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    Yes, just a PICS check I believe.

    Not defending the sheriff's position, but I will try to relay his concerns as he has expressed them to me over the years. Many of these can be answered by asking the question "...but do you do that for residents?":

    1. He has no insight into the criminal history of non-resident applicants, and no way to dig deeper.

    2. He has no insight into mental health issues of non-resident applicants, and no way to dig deeper.

    3. He is never informed of life events. Recently a widow contacted him in tears because he sent a renewal notice for her dead husband.

    4. He has no way of being informed of criminal activity that should result in LTCF revocation/suspension.

    5. He has no way of being informed of things like residency or address changes.

    6. Something about office staffing levels and COVID.

    ------------------

    Again, not defending his position, just relaying what he stated to me as best I can.
    Numbers 1 and 2 should be covered by NICS, which PICS queries (I believe). Does he think that convicted felons in other states can move here and pass PICS if they have no PA record?

    3, 4, and 5 apply equally to residents and non-residents, unless said criminal acts occur in the county of issuance. Further, LTCF holders are obligated by an affirmation made on the LTCF application to notify the sheriff if such a circumstance occurs (see quote below).

    Number 6 is bullshit, and does not relieve a sheriff of their statutory obligations. Did sheriffs cease serving all warrants and/or taking fugitives into custody "because of covid"?

    If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city.
    Last edited by gnbrotz; April 20th, 2021 at 05:23 PM.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Do you think that convicted felons in other states can move here and pass PICS if they have no PA record?
    I'm assuming you're talking to the sheriff here, not shooting the messenger

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    Best you could hope for as a state is jettisoning NYC but that's realistically never gonna happen.
    Agreed, though with COVID, I thought we had a chance at regime change. It looked like people were exiting NYC en masse with no plan to return. Ah well.

    I don't think NY is a lost cause... I think there is potential for the courts to have a big impact. NY is in blatant violation of Heller, and its arbitrary "may issue" status has a case sitting in front of SCOTUS right now (whether or not they take it up is a different question).

    That said, for me, it's less about fixing NY and more about stemming the rot and containing it. Addressing the worst of the worst before it spreads. It breaks my heart to watch PA slowly transform into NY. I want it to stop. It's terrible. We have PA congressional reps pushing for gun control, a perpetual SoE limiting carry rights, and the state is a toss-up during presidential elections. Please, send all the liberal NYers back to me. They're ruining everything down there. Up here they're just more poop in the canal.

  9. #19
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    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking to the sheriff here, not shooting the messenger
    You are correct. I've edited my post to reflect that.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  10. #20
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    Nov 2008
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    Oley, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Challenge the Sheriff (again): 2021 Susquehanna County Non-Res Renewal Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    There's something called "The Free State Project" which is a grass roots movement to have conservatives move en masse to New Hampshire to turn the state solidly Red. Not sure how that's going right now but it has a fighting chance. New York? Never. Sometimes, you just gotta know when to fish and when to cut bait. Best you could hope for as a state is jettisoning NYC but that's realistically never gonna happen.
    I've thought that if Washington DC becomes a state, that is what should happen... Conservatives buy up DC and turn it red... Imagine the politicians on the Federal level as constitutional carry was passed.

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