Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by sawgunner73 View Post
    This is why our side will lose. "It sounds scary, don't do it"

    The definition of a Manufacturer from 27 CFR 478.11: "Manufacturer. Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition. The term shall include any person who engages in such business on a part-time basis.

    27 CFR 478.11: Engaged in the business*(a) Manufacturer of firearms. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.

    Building one rifle for a friend as a gift is the same as buying one firearm for a gift. It's going through a dealer and sounds like the OP did some research to ensure it will be NJ compliant.
    I challenge you to load your car up with gun stickers and a MAGA flag and drive through the entire NJ Turnpike with a whole case of hollow points and 10 AR mags in your back seat.


    It has nothing to do with our heart to defend the 2A...you just don't mess with NJ. Laws and the Constitution do not matter there.
    Galations 6:9...And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
    Ashli Babbitt - Patriot

  2. #22
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    Jan 2007
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by sawgunner73 View Post
    This is why our side will lose. "It sounds scary, don't do it"...
    Building one rifle for a friend as a gift is the same as buying one firearm for a gift. It's going through a dealer and sounds like the OP did some research to ensure it will be NJ compliant.
    Argue this with the BATFE and see how it goes. He stated he was building it (building something = manufacturing something) with the INTENT of transferring it to his relative. Go ahead and do it yourself, and if the BATFE arrests you, go to court and present your argument. You may very well win using the argument that building a AR to give away is no different than buying a complete AR to give away and charges will be dropped and you'll only be out....say....a few thousand dollars.

    I've been in the firearms business since 1989 and I've seen/heard/read about a lot of BATFE abuses, some not even as "bad" as this. Some have gone to court and won at the cost of thousands of dollars and a lot of lost hours.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Make no mistake.... I am 100% ALL FOR disobeying the ILLEGAL, ANTI- 2nd Amendment laws places like NJ believe are just! And I HAVE & WILL continue sticking it to them any chance I get!

    The element I stress is keeping it on the DL. Not wise to tell them WHAT or WHEN you do something.
    I donít respond to loser, democrat Mods! And there are too many here!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    I once asked my ATF inspector about a similar issue. I had given up my FFL and was curious about working on friends' guns. He said that as long as I wasn't doing it to generate income, I was fine. I then asked about building a 1911 or AR-15 and he said the same thing, not to generate income. He said that the important thing for me was to watch out for illegal transfers such as taking a gun from my friend in Ohio home to Pa to tinker with it.

    Take that for what it's worth. In your situation, I'd be concerned about buying the receiver with the intent to transfer it to another person unless it is a "true gift." Although, as others have said, the likelihood of being caught is low.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by 1096369fred View Post
    I really do not see transferring a lawfully obtained lower (and rifle built on it!) would violate the intent of the law in NJ
    For many, many years we thought that if we found a gun that our friend liked, bought it, and then did the paperwork at an FFL to transfer it to him that we were OK. A few years back, we found out otherwise when they went after a guy who did just that. Of course, they were after him for something else but still . . .

    We law abiding people like to think that law enforcement will say, "Well, you know . . . he wasn't trying to do anything really wrong so we'll just tell him to not do it again." Often it doesn't work that way. First, they need to make examples of use to frighten the other plebs into behaving. Secondly, they know that we're an easy win for them because most of us aren't willing to spend our pension fund on lawyers or go to prison, so they offer a deal and we bite. Real criminals have lots of charges and will plead many away.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    .

    my oldest son lives in NJ asked me last year if i could buy a few guns for him here and transfer them to him

    I told him NO

    he successfully was able to legally acquire some pistols and an AR.

    the kid that works for him has been waiting almost 6 months to get the needed permits to get a glock
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 ...........

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    If you haven't machined anything or 3-D printed anything, and haven't drilled and tapped anything, you have not manufactured, you have assembled from parts manufactured by others.

    However, if you completed the 4473, you replied to:

    21. Answer the following questions by checking or marking either the *yes* or *no* box to the right of the questions: Yes No
    a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)?
    Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person.

    Even if you plan on transferring via FFL later, which should be your right, BATFE and Democrats say you are committing a felony if you do it. I see no magic in waiting a year. You can always be accused (charged) at any time by an investigator who has read these pages and learned your identity, possibly subject to a tolling of the statutes.
    There are only two kinds of guns. Those I have and those I want.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    If you haven't machined anything or 3-D printed anything, and haven't drilled and tapped anything, you have not manufactured, you have assembled from parts manufactured by others.
    Apparently it depends on the phase of the moon, your birth sign, a whether the chicken bones line up properly.

    I found this on Firearms Talk.

    I called and talked to an agent in Technology branch. He confirmed that assembling and selling a complete upper is not considered manufacturing and a Class 01 CAN do this.

    A Class 01 CANNOT assemble and sell a complete lower. A Class 01 CAN sell a complete lower than is already assembled by the manufacturer.
    However, when I surrendered my 01 FFL, I asked the inspector about doing tinkering on guns for friends and he said that was legal, I then asked about assembling a gun from parts for a friend and he said that was legal without an FFL as long as I wasn't doing it for income.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    This is gray area guys. Here is fact, as long as you are NOT accepting the firearm, ABSENT of the owner & NOT taking payment, working on said firearm does not violate any laws. Of course this is assuming THEY have purchased the the firearm/receiver themselves or it was transferred via FFL.

    Now, ATF/FBI agents and most LEO will tell you doing anything is a violation of law. However, they won*t be able to cite any code.


    I*ll tell you this. I*ve worked on many, many other firearm. I*ve machined small parts for firearm, etc. but I*ve never taken someone*s firearm without their presence. And I*ve never taken payment for any action. So good luck if they want to try to arrest me.
    I donít respond to loser, democrat Mods! And there are too many here!

  10. #30
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Building an AR for a relative in NJ

    Yeah. I was applying common sense. That never works v a government agency. Silly me, should've learned by now.
    There are only two kinds of guns. Those I have and those I want.

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