Rifle private sale questions

[God's Country]

I'm lawfully allowed to sell any long gun to a PA resident. I only asked for a DL one time, because it was a gun show and people from out of state tend to hit them.
Other than that, you a Pa resident?, Yes? Exchange gun for money. I'm not getting involved with anything else. I'm not going to perform a make shift background check, or pretend asking for a LTCF or, BOS, is going to accomplish anything other than me doing the governments dirty work for them.

[JaySmith]

Even if the gun was used in a crime, it's a rifle, I was under the impression that rifle serial numbers were not logged at a state or national level. And, if used in a crime, it seems like the odds of the criminal escaping, but leaving the rifle behind would be low. But even if it was, is the serial number really able to be linked to me? I thought that was just pistols.

[jthrelf]

Even if the gun was used in a crime, it's a rifle, I was under the impression that rifle serial numbers were not logged at a state or national level. And, if used in a crime, it seems like the odds of the criminal escaping, but leaving the rifle behind would be low. But even if it was, is the serial number really able to be linked to me? I thought that was just pistols.

We're talking two different mechanisms. PA (state level) has the record of sales database (pseudo-registry) for handguns (PA defined 'firearms' really) through the PSP. Many other states don't require FFL transfer for handguns. So then at the Federal level for all guns you have serial number tracking from manufacturer to distributor to FFL. Law enforcement can initiate a trace on that supply chain through the ATF and they wind up at the FFL that the gun was first sold at. Law enforcement then shows up at the shop and says hey can you pull up the 4473 for this firearm. The FFL produces the record and they now have info on the first buyer. Then they go to the first buyer and ask questions. The first buyer may say "come back with a warrant" or "I sold it legally to Joe Shmo two years ago". Then it's up to them to continue the investigation.

By the way, this is exactly what "universal background checks" is trying to change. To turn this supply chain tracking into a formal registry. Because without a registry, the required background checks (transfers) aren't enforceable. The 4473 on its own theoretically has no registration power - it's an application to purchase. They aren't allowed to digitize the forms. They can only scan/photocopy. This is also why they recently updated the 4473 to have serial number info on the first page so they only have to scan/copy 1 page instead of multiple.

[Bang]

I sometimes think the long gun Pa to Pa face to face is being over-thought.

It is legal
Show where in the law the seller is responsible for a buyer's misrepresentation if any.
Proof of PA residency meets that responsibility.
Why should a person wanting to buy a long gun not having a LTCF be a deal breaker?

[Fortytwo]

Why should a person wanting to buy a long gun not having a LTCF be a deal breaker?

Even when buying a hand gun why would the lack of a LTCF be deal-breaking?

[Fortytwo]

Yeah, I know in PA you need a FFL transfer for a hand gun. But the question above is rhetorical.

[markshere2]

Would you agree that it's possible to be an "unlawful user" of controlled substances, yet have no criminal record?

If so, lying on the LTCF form, with no actual convictions, will likely result in getting a LTCF, even though you are factually prohibited from both the LTCF AND possession.

Sure, an individual can lie to me, but they can also lie to 'the man', so the supposed "proof" I'm relying on can be just as faulty as a verbal answer to my own questions.

You are LOGIC-ING!
Stop that!

Stop it now!!

No logic allowed!!!


Exactly right.

[JaySmith]

I sometimes think the long gun Pa to Pa face to face is being over-thought.

It is legal
Show where in the law the seller is responsible for a buyer's misrepresentation if any.
Proof of PA residency meets that responsibility.
Why should a person wanting to buy a long gun not having a LTCF be a deal breaker?

I've just never done it before, I wanted to make sure I had my bases covered. I don't want to break any laws through negligence, even if they are stupid laws.

[USMC3531]

There is no such thing as a "suspended" LTCF. It's either valid, or revoked. If revoked, the holder is required to surrender it back to the Sheriff within 5 days of notice.

I suppose it's possible one could try to quickly make a private purchase after revocation by showing it before turning it back in, but I think the odds of that scenario happening are pretty low.

Maybe suspended was the wrong word, but the fact remains the sherriff may take a month or more to send out letters demanding its return. I've seen it happen in real life.

[rgaper]

OP, your obligations with a private sale of a long gun in PA are that you can only sell from PA resident to PA resident, and that individual must be "non-prohibited" for firearm purchases. Easiest thing to do is to ask them for a valid PA driver's license and a valid PA LTCF. Visually verify that both are valid and complete the sale with cash.

I personally would never ask someone to complete a Bill of Sale.