6105(d) relief necessary following a pardon?

[wilshire]

Hello everyone. A couple of weeks ago I was fortunate enough to receive a full pardon from Gov. Wolf for a disabling conviction (if anyone reading this has any questions about the process, please feel free to message me about it and I'll tell you everything I can).

After more than a decade I can own guns again... I think.

I am not entirely sure about the necessity of filing for relief under 6105(d) and I was hoping the good folks here could steer me right.

The law seems a little contradictory about whether a pardon alone is sufficient to restore firearms rights.

On one hand, it says a pardoned conviction is not a conviction:

""Conviction."... The term does not include a conviction which has been expunged or overturned or for which an individual has been pardoned unless the pardon expressly provides that the individual may not possess or transport firearms."

On the other hand it says that a person convicted of a disabling offense can make application for a relief from firearms disabilities after being granted a pardon (6105(d)(2)).

It also says under 6123 that a pardon for a conviction does not remove the corresponding disability:

"...a full pardon from the Governor or an overturning of a conviction shall remove any corresponding disability under this subchapter except the disability under section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms)."

So... a pardoned conviction is not a conviction, but it then it goes on to talk about the "corresponding disability" resulting from a pardoned conviction? Huh?

I've read the Commonwealth Court's opinion in PSP v. Sama where they addressed this very contradiction, and I am still confused. I don't understand their reasoning and it still seems like there's a plain contradiction in the law.

In PSP v. Sama, the PA State Police argued the "you need 6105(d) relief in addition to a pardon", and the the court disagreed and went with the "a pardon is a pardon and a pardoned conviction is a non-conviction" logic, ordering the PSP to amend their database to remove Mr. Sama's firearms restriction.

Is it safe to assume that the PSP is still operating under their preferred interpretation of the law, or would they have changed their policies based on the ruling?

Does a pardon by itself really restore you to non-convicted status, or do you need 6105(d) relief?

Thanks in advance.

[widgetman101]

Probably best to contact a lawyer to confirm, if you did get your rights back congratulations. If you got them back good luck finding good guns and ammo atm.

[MARINE DIVISION TWO]

IANAL ! Contact Gunlawyer on this site ! At this point you would not want to Jeopardize your rights or Pardon !

[SigForLife]

Your answer -> https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/05/2...sing-firearms/

[wilshire]

Your answer -> https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/05/2...sing-firearms/

Thanks for the reply. That's the PSP v. Sama case that I mentioned.

The court doesn't explain how 6123 isn't made meaningless by their ruling and I am not sure I follow their reasoning about 6105(d)(2) either. To me it looks like there's a plain contradiction between the definition of a conviction excluding pardoned conviction and later verbiage about how pardons and relief from disabilities relate.

A pardon is supposed to be a pardon, yes, that's pretty clear, but how they square that with the rest of the law doesn't make any sense to me. It seems like a contradiction in the law.

In PSP v. Sama, the PA State Police weren't ordered to start treating everyone's pardoned conviction as a non-conviction - just Mr. Sama's. Maybe they've changed how they do things there in light of the ruling, but maybe they haven't. They haven't been so ordered.

If I was to challenge a PICS denial or a charge of being a felon in possession of a firearm, I'd have a pretty good case in court in light of that ruling. I'd really rather not have things get to that point.

[wilshire]

IANAL ! Contact Gunlawyer on this site ! At this point you would not want to Jeopardize your rights or Pardon !

Gunlawyer?

[t1066]

Gunlawyer?

Gunlawyer001 , you can PM here: https://forum.pafoa.org/member.php?u=1125

SigForLife above is also a firearms lawyer.

Either one should be able to advise you.

[MikeStull]

Do contact a one of the above lawyers before doing anything.

DO NOT complete and submit a form 4473 in an attempt to purchase a firearm until you are certain of your status. That could jam you up.

[bug]

Do contact a one of the above lawyers before doing anything.

DO NOT complete and submit a form 4473 in an attempt to purchase a firearm until you are certain of your status. That could jam you up.

^^This, right here^^

In the past(?) there was a process of Expungement that had to be done through the court in the county of the conviction. I don't know if that has been changed but do not proceed until YOU know.

[pa350z]

You will need to spend a few bucks on an Attorney to guide you before you attempt any purchase. No sense in screwing up your pardon and general status now after all that work you reportedly put into it. Both attorney's mentioned here are excellent choices to assist you. Well worth the consult and any subsequent legal work.