Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    A guy I have known for many years is married to our niece. He and our niece both filled out the NJSP form and took it to their local department. It issued her a FOID. They have stalled his for some undisclosed reason, other than to say "we are busy".

    Do these cards expire, or have a limited period of use? Is a card per gun a requirement? It's beginning to look like she better get her gun asap. With her gun in the home, is he precluded from using it in dire need without a FOID?

    Trying to find the answers to this PRNJ crap is not easy.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    New Jersey is complicated.

    First, this process is controlled by the local Police Depts at each Town/Municipality; if their town does not have a local PD, they will need to go to their local State Police barracks. There are common State-mandated forms and such (and the local PD CANNOT add to them), but each town has their own internal processes - some, mostly major cities and the State Police, are notably slow in their internal processing; the NJ statute controlling this process states "30 days" - this has already been adjudicated as "30 days after the issuing PD has all the information". The NJ NRA reps; the ANJRPC, periodically have their lawyers kick the slow PDs to move them along.

    There is a Firearm ID Card - this card is good for purchasing long guns (rifles/shotguns) and handgun ammo. The Firearm ID Card does not expire; but you have to re-apply if you move; even if it's across the street.

    There is also a SEPARATE Pistol Purchase Permit. This permit is good to purchase ONE PISTOL, is only good for 3 months (tho the chief of police *can* (he doesn't have to) extend it for another 3 months, and applying for this exactly the SAME process as getting a Firearm ID Card (references, record checks, etc - everything except re-fingerprinting). What this means is (A) if you're already applying for a Firearms ID Card, just go-ahead and apply for some (usually 3) Pistol Purchase Permits, and (B) even if you only want to purchase one pistol, apply for three Pistol Purchase Permits anyway. The permit used to be a paper permit, but is now an on-line process. Remember that NJ is a 'one pistol a month' state. Wait the full month; the State Police DO check!

    Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V2ah4CGzuY - this video does a decent job of describing the process.

    Also notable; once you have all of the above done, New Jersey's version of PICS (NICS) is ALWAYS backed-up; usually 2-7 days. Additionally, if your relative gets denied somewhere along the way, he will NEED to appeal PRONTO! Denial is not common, but it does happen, and something to be concerned with, if the local PD approved your niece but is dragging their feet on her husband. There is a timeframe limitation to appeal the denial, and the denial WILL follow you. If denied; he will NEED a lawyer! There are several around.

    An older commentary from Scott Bach (from ANJRPC, the local NJ NRA reps), is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yj1b8c7FAE
    Scott's commentary does identify the status of owning firearms in NJ; illegal EXCEPT for specific exemptions.


    ALSO - the NJ Firearm ID Card is NOT a carry license! NJ carry licenses are like unicorns...you'll never actually see one.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    He hasn't received a denial. I guess a little more time is needed. I'll forward this to him and he can see if his chronology fits. THANK YOU so much for your comprehensive post.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    W2MC, thanks for the detailed response. I knew PRNJ was messed up, but this well beyond messed up. Constitutional law recognizes as a principle of liberty that *everything which is not forbidden is allowed.* It seems PRNJ subscribes to totalitarianism: everything is forbidden unless government gives permission. There is a plus side: no impulse pistol purchases.
    Let me help you out. Which way did you come in?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    When your family members filled out their stuff hopefully they purchased two pistol purchase permits along with their FOID. Those DO expire but apparently the expiration on newly issued permits has been extended (maybe to 6 months?) due to the plandemic.

    My suggestion would be to bug, hassle, and constantly ask about the status of their documents. Squeaky wheel gets the grease in NJ for these things in my indirect (friends and family) experience.

    Nothing is wrong - NJ is just blowing up the prescribed timelines and of course they don't care. To avoid anymore delays tell them to purchase their long guns in PA at a dealer that knows the NJ process like Tanner's.

    Further, I don't see why him not having an FOID is a problem with a gun in the home. I wouldn't go outside the home with anything though.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    When your family members filled out their stuff hopefully they purchased two pistol purchase permits along with their FOID. Those DO expire but apparently the expiration on newly issued permits has been extended (maybe to 6 months?) due to the plandemic.

    My suggestion would be to bug, hassle, and constantly ask about the status of their documents. Squeaky wheel gets the grease in NJ for these things in my indirect (friends and family) experience.

    Nothing is wrong - NJ is just blowing up the prescribed timelines and of course they don't care. To avoid anymore delays tell them to purchase their long guns in PA at a dealer that knows the NJ process like Tanner's.

    Further, I don't see why him not having an FOID is a problem with a gun in the home. I wouldn't go outside the home with anything though.
    The FPID is required for purchasing guns, not for owning them. However, it does grant you more freedom in travel with long guns. Travelling without one requires you to be going directly to or from specific exempted locations.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    Und ver ahh your PAPAHS!! Vee haf vays of makin you TALK! Schwine!
    Derrion Albert was my Hero.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    My wife's best friend lives in NJ. She just got her Firearm ID Card last month. It's good for 180 days instead of the 90 days they list on NJ State Police site. So it looks like they are extending it due to Covid.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    Additional info, including a link to a 'sample letter' to send to the Police Chief to inquire what's the delay:

    https://gunforhire.com/gunpermit/?fb...si8EJEKjT0KyJY

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Crazy responses by local NJ PD on FOID applicants

    A couple things to add - from a Jersey resident. The entire Firearms Purchaser ID (FPID) and Permit to Purchase a Handgun (PPH) application process is now on line (called FARS). There is also an accommodation to apply for a Multiple Handgun Purchase Exemption (MHE) as part of that process. There are only several reasons that allow for that exemption - collector, inheritor, competitor. The FPID has no expiration and as correctly stated above allows unlimited purchase of long guns as well as handgun ammunition and also make transport of long guns easier.

    The PPH is good for only one purchase of a handgun and, originally expired in 90 days but, at the CLEO of the issuing entities discretion was renewable for an additional 90 days. That has changed under the new electronic system and permits are automatically extended for the full 180 days from date of issue. The applicant will receive an on-line notice that it has been extended. When purchasing a handgun, the day after the issuance of the NICS approval is day one. Count to 30 and you are good to purchase again on day 31.

    The MHE can be used at anytime, regardless of when your last single purchase was made. HOWEVER, using the MHE restarts the 30 day clock. You still need a individual PPH for each gun listed on the MHE. You need complete information on all the guns that you list for purchase on the MHE. SIDE NOTE - When the process of applying for an MHE was done via hardcopy, there was no limit as to the number of handguns included on that MHE. The first time I applied for an MHE electronically, it limited me to four handguns. I originally suspected that a clueless programmer made that error when transitioning from the hardcopy to the electronic application process. Since then I have applied for another MHE and this time was purposely limited to only three handguns. This has been reported to the ANJRPC, but whether it will change is unknown at this point. I am fortunate in that I have a dealer that works with me. I accrue a number of guns (I collect post-war S&W revolvers) from on-line sources and then apply for multiple PPH's and an MHE. You need the selling dealer to sign-off on the MHE and you also need his FFL number and state license number.

    The local PD's still play a role in this as they are tasked with doing background check investigations - so while the electronic application process has helped somewhat, there is still room for your local PD to slow the process considerably. Some municipalities are notorious for this and they need to be reported to the ANJRPC. The slow down with the application process and the NICS approvals is basically because of the sheer volume of new applicants/purchasers. I am friendly with members of two PD's that process these applications and the norm, at this point in time, is up to 200 applications in process at any given moment. Many PD's do not accord this function the importance that they should - a right delayed is a right denied.

    New FPID or PPH applicants need to get fingerprinted, after that a non-criminal background check is part of the application process in lieu of fingerprinting. By law, local issuing entities cannot add anything to the process. There have been some egregious breaches of this stipulation - things like requiring other people in your household to approve your purchase. Or requiring that certain documents be notarized. Much of this has abated since going to the FARS application process, but I'm sure that some departments are still pulling these stunts.

    I think that pretty well covers things. One final note - I don't need multiple posts telling me to move. Not going to happen and to suggest that to people is insulting to their intelligence. There are many, many factors involved in deciding to pull-up stakes and relocate and as you get older it becomes all that more difficult. I am aware of my options and don't need that kind of advice.

    Adios,

    Pizza Bob
    NRA Benefactor Member

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