Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    The ability of non-residents to obtain a PA LTCF, is dying.

    Berks, Media and Carbon counties, which have a long history of issuing LTCF's to non-residents, all now decline to do so. I had more in-depth conversations with representatives at several of these offices, and their problem is that they are overwhelmed with requests from residents and non-residents, and don't have the resources to keep up.

    Understood. They need more manpower, space, time, square footage - funding - for the demand.

    Here's a few questions:
    1. What is the estimated time needed to process a LTCF application?
    2. What is the Sheriff's manpower and resources cost to process a LTCF application?
    3. How is the current LTCF fee allocated? Does it all go to the State Police? Is a portion retained by the county Sheriff?

    The point being, non-residents don't pay taxes. Non-residents don't therefore contribute to the County Sheriff's operating expenses.

    I pay CCW permit fees from $65-$100 in other states. I understand the PA (Legislatively mandated?) $20 fee doesn't split too many ways.

    Why not just create a different fee structure for non-residents? Allow the County Sheriff to retain almost all of the higher, non-res fee value.

    This could incentivize Sheriff's departments to service non-residents. There would be no cost to PA residents, but PA residents would reap the benefits of a better-funded LTCF office at their County Sheriff. Pro-2a Sheriffs would be rewarded with more revenue, with no financial penalty to anti-2a Sheriffs, except that they don't reap additional revenue.

    To persue this goal:
    4. What organization is a go-to for PA gun rights? Who is a good POC?
    5. Who is the most pro-gun, pro-carry legislator in Harrisburg? Which one wants campaign donations from non-residents?

    Along with this, maybe Legislative language could be revised to allow non-res permits to be issued remotely. VA CCW non-res permits were $100 but no requirement to appear in person. The added cost was well worth not having to make a trip, and would make this service more appealing to non-residents that live nowhere near a PA Sheriff.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    1. As fast as PICS does an instant background check + a couple minutes to take picture and type stuff into the computer. I've had renewals completed from the time I stepped foot into the courthouse until I walked out with license in hand in 9 minutes.
    2. That is an individual case, per sheriffs office.
    3. The fee for a LTCF is $19+$1=$20(see 18.61.6109(h) ). I think the sheriff gets to keep $5 of that $20, I think...
    4. GOA, NRA, 2AF, and another(cant remember their name)
    5. Don't know, but I don't support allowing out of state entities influencing another state's elections/campaigns. It is just as bad as Bloomberg doing the same to support gun control in other states.

    Sheriffs that don't issue to non-residents are violating the UFA, which is at minimum a 1st Degree Misdemeanor punishable by 5 years in prison(effectively making you a felon for gun rights). State law says "shall issue", even for non-residents.

    If manpower and funding are a problem at a sheriff's office, then that is a matter between them, the county, and the state to provide the necessary funds. Denying a state required service is a violation of the Uniform Firearms Act.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Here's my take: doing anything statewide to amend the LTCF process is pointless because of the national movement that's happening for Constitutional/permitless carry. Increasing fees disenfranchises low income folks and is a barrier to entry which we shouldn't support. We should only be looking to get a constitutional carry bill through (which, admittedly won't be likely right now/before Wolf is out).

    Rep. Bernstine has previously submitted a bill (and will again I believe) that has a two tier structure: 1) get a LTCF under the current process (to use for your out of state travels) and 2) removes the requirement of the LTCF for carry by non-prohibited people in the Commonwealth.

    4) FOAC firearm owners against crime is the state lobbying org, but GOA gun owners of America has a big presence too.

    For the short term, electing Sheriffs on a county level that will address LTCF backlogs and no issuance to non-residents is a solution.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    I am looking for the state affiliate of the NRA, not the national organization.

    The NRA has state affiliates listed for most states on their website, but not PA.

    EDITED: re-read your post and contacted FOAC
    thank you

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    I am looking for the state affiliate of the NRA, not the national organization.

    The NRA has state affiliates listed for most states on their website, but not PA.

    EDITED: re-read your post and contacted FOAC
    thank you
    I think PA had a NRA rep a couple/few years ago, but if I remember correctly - he was shill. If I remember correctly.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    The ability of non-residents to obtain a PA LTCF, is dying.

    Berks, Media and Carbon counties, which have a long history of issuing LTCF's to non-residents, all now decline to do so. I had more in-depth conversations with representatives at several of these offices, and their problem is that they are overwhelmed with requests from residents and non-residents, and don't have the resources to keep up.
    Berks County appears to be taking out of state application, according to the application I just looked at online.:
    3. Applicants must be 21 years old and a Berks County resident or a resident of another state in possession of a License
    to Carry Firearms or similar license for that state.


    Rick

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    It is illegal for any county to refuse to accept and process a LTCF application. Residents are required to apply in their own county. Non-residents can apply in any county.

    Many counties refuse, and get away with it because it is easier for someone to go to another county to apply then it is to sue them for violating the law.

    However, a better soulution would be to sue them, both in state and federal court for the civil rights violation, and have your attorney file a private criminal complaint for official oppression with the DA.

    Given that the only three things I can think of that a sheriffs dept. is required to do by law is issue LTCF, protect the COURT ROOM, and over see the auctions known as "sheriffs sales" I have trouble believing any departments are overwhelmed with these tasks.

    If they are overwhelmed with driving prisoners' around, serving warrants, sitting at the entrance of the courthouse and illegally pestering people coming to the courthouse; then they are not overwhelmed. They are misusing their government resources and failing to meet their obligations are required by law. The Sherriff should face the criminal and civilly punitive fines of his illegal actions and malfeasance.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Quote Originally Posted by RLS View Post
    Berks County appears to be taking out of state application, according to the application I just looked at online.:
    3. Applicants must be 21 years old and a Berks County resident or a resident of another state in possession of a License
    to Carry Firearms or similar license for that state.


    Rick
    I just called and spoke to two different individuals at Berks, today.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    I just called and spoke to two different individuals at Berks, today.
    If it's not too inconvenient for you, I would just show up at their Reading airport office on a day that they're there and see what they do. He goes out to remote offices one week of the month so you don't want to go during that week.
    If you're afraid of the people you represent, you might be doing something wrong

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pa Non-Resident LTCF

    Living in DE, my day-trip motorcycling is basically confined to DE and PA, since NJ and MD are not 2A friendly.
    Having my PA LTCF means I spend quite a bit of time motorcycling in PA and have the opportunity to dine at many different places along the way.
    Whether the Sheriff's Department considers non-res licenses 'cost effective' or not is not the point since they are duty-bound to issue those licenses for the benefit of the state and not for their own benefit.
    So, as far as I'm concerned they just need to stop slacking off and do their job. Perhaps a few lawsuits will get the point across?
    IANAL. I don't give legal advice. I'm only stating my OPINION.
    (Did I really need to say that on an Internet forum? LOL)

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