Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    My understanding is, once it's a pistol, (either sold as a pistol or paired to a short barreled upper) it's forever a pistol.
    My question is if you install a stock or VFG on a pistol it becomes an SBR. What if you then change out uppers to a 16" barrel. The lower has gone from being a pistol, to an SBR, and then to a standard barreled rifle? I guess the question is can you go from SBR to standard rifle just by swapping uppers since an SBR is not technically a pistol.
    If a pistol lower is always a pistol, how can it become an SBR, which is technically a rifle and not a pistol?
    Woah. Way to complicate things!
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    My understanding is, once it's a pistol, (either sold as a pistol or paired to a short barreled upper) it's forever a pistol.
    My question is if you install a stock or VFG on a pistol it becomes an SBR. What if you then change out uppers to a 16" barrel. The lower has gone from being a pistol, to an SBR, and then to a standard barreled rifle? I guess the question is can you go from SBR to standard rifle just by swapping uppers since an SBR is not technically a pistol.
    If a pistol lower is always a pistol, how can it become an SBR, which is technically a rifle and not a pistol?
    You go with the higher regulated gun.

    SBR's(Title II) are regulated higher than pistols(Title I). Pistols are regulated higher than rifles, both of which Title I.

    SBR's are sub-16"/26"(barrel/OAL) firearms assembled with shoulder stocks, or sub-16"/26" firearms made from a rifle.

    A pistol can be made into a rifle, and back. A pistol can be made into a SBR by adding a shoulder stock(with a barrel less than 16" OR OAL less than 26"). At that point it is no longer Title I, it becomes Title II.

    Rifles can never be pistols, ever, they can only be made into SBR's.


    If the PSP has the receiver in the "database", you're better off treating it as a "pistol". If the receiver wasn't never put in the database - it is just a receiver until assembled as a PA defined "firearm", or as a rifle. Now sure, no one may ever know if/how a receiver was ever assembled. But legally criteria is met when it is assembled regardless as to whether anyone else ever knows.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    My understanding is, once it's a pistol, (either sold as a pistol or paired to a short barreled upper) it's forever a pistol.
    My question is if you install a stock or VFG on a pistol it becomes an SBR. What if you then change out uppers to a 16" barrel. The lower has gone from being a pistol, to an SBR, and then to a standard barreled rifle? I guess the question is can you go from SBR to standard rifle just by swapping uppers since an SBR is not technically a pistol.
    If a pistol lower is always a pistol, how can it become an SBR, which is technically a rifle and not a pistol?
    A pistol IS NOT forever a pistol, you can take a pistol and make it into a rifle and then if you want back into a pistol. Please read my response in this thread (#8). Yes you can go from a legal SBR to a legal rifle just by changing the upper to a rifle length barrel. You can then change it back into a SBR if you want because it is already registered as an SBR. You CANNOT (legally) make the SBR into a pistol without doing a Form 1 - an SBR is a SHORT BARRELED RIFLE.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    A pistol IS NOT forever a pistol, you can take a pistol and make it into a rifle and then if you want back into a pistol. Please read my response in this thread (#8). Yes you can go from a legal SBR to a legal rifle just by changing the upper to a rifle length barrel. You can then change it back into a SBR if you want because it is already registered as an SBR. You CANNOT (legally) make the SBR into a pistol without doing a Form 1 - an SBR is a SHORT BARRELED RIFLE.
    Yes, I had it backwards, thank you.
    The Hostler

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    You CANNOT (legally) make the SBR into a pistol without doing a Form 1 - an SBR is a SHORT BARRELED RIFLE.
    Not that I'd ever want to do this, but let's say you had an SBR (an AR-15, as an example). If you were to replace the stock with just a pistol buffer tube, is that actually illegal? Does the SBR have to have a physical stock?

    Now lets say you have the same SBR, but you add a vertical foregrip. Do you have to re-register it as an AOW if you replace the stock with a pistol buffer tube?

    Again, I would never do either (both are stupid) - but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the utterly ridiculous rules.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    I can't possibly explain how much I hate these discussions.

    It is ridiculous what these pointless laws put us through.
    I'm just happy there are knowledgeable people here to explain this mess.
    Its just too easy to innocently end up on the wrong side of the law.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Royinmontco View Post
    Not that I'd ever want to do this, but let's say you had an SBR (an AR-15, as an example). If you were to replace the stock with just a pistol buffer tube, is that actually illegal? Does the SBR have to have a physical stock?

    Now lets say you have the same SBR, but you add a vertical foregrip. Do you have to re-register it as an AOW if you replace the stock with a pistol buffer tube?

    Again, I would never do either (both are stupid) - but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the utterly ridiculous rules.
    If you have a registered SBR, and you take the stock off and put a pistol brace or bare buffer tube on it, you effectively have turned a RIFLE into a pistol which cannot be done without getting an approved Form 1. An SBR without a stock on it would be considered a pistol.

    Once you have a registered SBR, you can add a VFG and not break any laws, because it is a rifle.

    Again, if you replace the stock, making it into a pistol, you have to do a Form 1 and at the time you fill out the Form 1, you could describe what you are making as a pistol with a VFG.

    My advice is to not try to wrap your head around all the different scenarios, it will drive you nuts. Just figure out what you want to do and then ask the question on how to do it legally.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; February 26th, 2021 at 10:20 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    If I shoot my rifle with one hand, have I reconfigured it into a pistol, and do I now have to register it for future confiscation?

    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeConnor View Post
    I can't possibly explain how much I hate these discussions.

    It is ridiculous what these pointless laws put us through.
    I'm just happy there are knowledgeable people here to explain this mess.
    Its just too easy to innocently end up on the wrong side of the law.
    I ABSOLUTEY agree with this statement. The laws are written so obtusely that I think even lawyers have problems interpreting them. They should be written so that people understand them after reading them once (ok, maybe twice).

    Also, especially with the advent of the MSR platform becoming main stream, the BATFE and law makers have never seriously studied and updated the regulations that deal with them. Even the NFA regs are still probably at least 50 or 60 years out of date.

    How can the average gun owner stay out of trouble, who knows? (Tongue firmly in cheek - the demoncrats know how to do it, just take away all the guns, then one can't break the law).
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    If I shoot my rifle with one hand, have I reconfigured it into a pistol, and do I now have to register it for future confiscation?

    I see what you're doing there 😉

    For those that don't - no and no you don't have to

    Sometimes a little levity is definitely called for.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

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