Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    That whole SB Tactical thing with the standard carbine buffer tube blows my mind.
    For years, all we heard was that a PISTOL must - I repeat, MUST have a PISTOL buffer tube so that a stock can NOT be used.

    Then, out of nowhere comes SB with the SBA3 brace - using a CARBINE buffer tube.
    Not sure how that became OK.

    Now Shockwave - makers of the BLADE pistol brace have a NEW, ADJUSTABLE pistol brace (2 versions actually) that ALSO use a standard carbine buffer tube.

    Crazy.
    LOVE - It's what makes AR15s SO DARNED SNUGGLY! :)

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Yes it absolutely is, and the problem is that the hierarchy of the ATf, does NOTHING to clarify anything to their agents or anyone else.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; February 26th, 2021 at 05:47 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Yes it absolutely is, and the problem is that the hierarchy of the AFT, does NOTHING to clarify anything to their agents or anyone else.
    Yeah, rather than losing sleep, I'm just going with "legal until they say it ain't no mo'."
    Which could happen at any moment.
    LOVE - It's what makes AR15s SO DARNED SNUGGLY! :)

  4. #14
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    Feb 2013
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    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Yeah, rather than losing sleep, I'm just going with "legal until they say it ain't no mo'."
    Which could happen at any moment.
    I recall someone saying something to the effect of "If they're gonna suddenly call my pistol an SBR, and make me a criminal, what incentive do I have to NOT make it an SBR".

    I can imagine that 10 inch pistol upper being loaded on to a rifle lower when the black helicopters drop agents on the front lawn, because - at that point - what's he got to lose?

  5. #15
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    Jun 2012
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    Honesdale, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    That whole SB Tactical thing with the standard carbine buffer tube blows my mind.
    For years, all we heard was that a PISTOL must - I repeat, MUST have a PISTOL buffer tube so that a stock can NOT be used.

    Then, out of nowhere comes SB with the SBA3 brace - using a CARBINE buffer tube.
    Not sure how that became OK.

    Now Shockwave - makers of the BLADE pistol brace have a NEW, ADJUSTABLE pistol brace (2 versions actually) that ALSO use a standard carbine buffer tube.

    Crazy.
    Do you know if the Sig Tread pistol comes standard with a carbine buffer tube or pistol buffer tube. I have one and was wondering.

  6. #16
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Will3212 View Post
    Do you know if the Sig Tread pistol comes standard with a carbine buffer tube or pistol buffer tube. I have one and was wondering.
    I don't know.
    Shockwave put out 2 versions of that Blade "2" and I can't tell by the SIG website which version they chose to use.
    Attempting to put a stock on it will let you know which one it has on it, but of course you don't want to become a fel0n over a 2 second fitment check.

    The first (Blade 2K) was designed to be adjustable, BUT while it LOOKS like a standard buffer tube with the raised part along the underside with the holes for adjustments, THAT tube is proprietary to the Shockwave Blade 2K.
    You can't put other pistol braces on, nor can you put a stock on it.
    (Probably a wise choice of design from a cover your ass point of view)

    Later, they released the Shockwave Blade 2M (milspec) which DOES use a standard carbine buffer tube!
    Confused yet? It's NUTS!
    I suspect they started to offer this one because "Who wants to deal with a proprietary buffer tube?"

    To further muddy the waters...
    The NEWEST (newly released - only avail from Shockwave and KAK at the moment) Shockwave Blades (Blade Classic and Blade Stealth) are also adjustable, but use a standard carbine buffer tube!!!
    LOVE - It's what makes AR15s SO DARNED SNUGGLY! :)

  7. #17
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    Jun 2012
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    Honesdale, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    A follow up question came to mind. If I decided to privately sell the complete AR pistol lower to a PA resident, can I do a face to face transfer, and not go through FFL?

  8. #18
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    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    If you are worried about the SBR thing as soon as you get a new receiver screw on a pistol brace and put on a pistol upper. The build doesn't have to be complete. Then take a picture with the serial number and something like a newspaper with the date. Then it is a pistol forever.

  9. #19
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Will3212 View Post
    A follow up question came to mind. If I decided to privately sell the complete AR pistol lower to a PA resident, can I do a face to face transfer, and not go through FFL?
    If it was transferred to you as an "Other" and the 4473 you signed was so marked, the way I read that section on the 4473, you could sell it without going through a FFL as long as the person was over 21 and a resident of PA. That said I am not a lawyer.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Waynesboro, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Question about buying complete AR pistol lower

    Quote Originally Posted by Will3212 View Post
    A follow up question came to mind. If I decided to privately sell the complete AR pistol lower to a PA resident, can I do a face to face transfer, and not go through FFL?
    My understanding is, once it's a pistol, (either sold as a pistol or paired to a short barreled upper) it's forever a pistol.
    My question is if you install a stock or VFG on a pistol it becomes an SBR. What if you then change out uppers to a 16" barrel. The lower has gone from being a pistol, to an SBR, and then to a standard barreled rifle? I guess the question is can you go from SBR to standard rifle just by swapping uppers since an SBR is not technically a pistol.
    If a pistol lower is always a pistol, how can it become an SBR, which is technically a rifle and not a pistol?
    The Hostler

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