Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Over the years I have used the entire width of my lane now and then. Dropped a lit cigarette and trying to retrieve it before it burns a hole in the mat. Tuning a radio searching for decent music. Avoiding the little brown dog. Avoiding a steaming pile of defecate from an unidentified contributor. Trying to latch the seat belt that I forgot to put on after gassing up. Avoiding a puddle, the depth of which was not determinable.

    A friend of ours, woman, was stopped by a gendarme who stated the reason he stopped her was she was "using too much of her lane".

    She is a no-nonsense type and speaks her mind. She said, "Seriously? Did I cross over them?" The officer admitted she had not. She said, "then I guess I have a right to use as much of the lane as I want".
    There are only two kinds of guns. Those I have and those I want.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post

    The original post in this thread simply points out that no matter how 'benevolent' and 'good-intentioned' the requirements of government are, they will be twisted to use against the citizens if at all possible!

    Small Government is the intention of the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights.

    ...
    Damn Government wanting you to drive between the lines. Sheesh. Next thing they will want you to stop at stop signs.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Damn Government wanting you to drive between the lines. Sheesh. Next thing they will want you to stop at stop signs.
    The technicality of the law has been used by police for a long time to oppress citizens who were still in compliance with the intent of safety. With no other vehicles (or other objects of danger) within 500 feet of a stop sign, how can stopping for the stop sign be safer than not? There are plenty of people who actually drive dangerously on whom the police can shower their attention. But the ease of preying on those who technically violate the law (even without actual danger) suffices to pass as 'keeping the public safe'.

    The pedanticism of the police, in trying to oppress the citizenry thru application of technicalities that do not represent the 'spirit of the law', is just one more reason that the police have lost the respect they once had from the public at large.

    Power corrupts.

    ...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    The technicality of the law has been used by police for a long time to oppress citizens who were still in compliance with the intent of safety. With no other vehicles (or other objects of danger) within 500 feet of a stop sign, how can stopping for the stop sign be safer than not? There are plenty of people who actually drive dangerously on whom the police can shower their attention. But the ease of preying on those who technically violate the law (even without actual danger) suffices to pass as 'keeping the public safe'.

    The pedanticism of the police, in trying to oppress the citizenry thru application of technicalities that do not represent the 'spirit of the law', is just one more reason that the police have lost the respect they once had from the public at large.

    Power corrupts.

    ...
    I*ll agree that enforcing the spirit of the law is usually better than the letter of the law. But I disagree with optional observance of such things as stop signs. I have handled many accidents where one driver thought the other driver would have or should have stopped.

    And with the recent climate around the country, the lax enforcement is causing more issues than I believe it solves. Just my simple commute on the expressway or river drives has turned into an extremely defensive trip due to the attitude of many of the other drivers. The number of fatal accidents and auto peds has risen significantly over the past 6 months, just like our homicide rate.

  5. #35
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    Erie, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImminentDanger View Post
    The technicality of the law has been used by police for a long time to oppress citizens who were still in compliance with the intent of safety. With no other vehicles (or other objects of danger) within 500 feet of a stop sign, how can stopping for the stop sign be safer than not? There are plenty of people who actually drive dangerously on whom the police can shower their attention. But the ease of preying on those who technically violate the law (even without actual danger) suffices to pass as 'keeping the public safe'.

    The pedanticism of the police, in trying to oppress the citizenry thru application of technicalities that do not represent the 'spirit of the law', is just one more reason that the police have lost the respect they once had from the public at large.

    Power corrupts.

    ...


    There is no intent of safety, if people think rolling a STOP sign is safe, just because it appears NO other vehicle, or even pedestrian is near, or within sight of an intersection.

    People have a problem with being over confident that a collision won't occur, because of their (lack of) judgment, or think the other obstacle should yield to them. Same is applied to intersections controlled by traffic lights.

    This is NOT what was taught as Defensive Driving, when I took driver's ed. in high school.


    ANd yet, in this particular Forum, nothing was mentioned about Firearms, and Related Laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    I suppose the issue of 'How Safe is Safe?' can be paralleled to Firearms.

    There are plenty of gun-ignorant people who think that no firearm is 'Safe' when it is loaded. They demand that firearms be unloaded and stored in safes. For a few, the only time they grudgingly allow the 'UnSafe' condition of a loaded gun, is when you are actually being assaulted (which is usually too late to actually load it).

    Another example of 'How Safe is Safe?' is the argument over what Condition Level to carry your firearm. As above, Condition 4? Or, Condition 1? Not everyone agrees - So what Condition Level is appropriately Safe?

    The response to the issue of Safety and Risk cannot be universally applied without eventually demanding total elimination of Risk in order to (supposedly) have true Safety. That presumes that everyone ought to act as if they themselves (and everyone else) are the most irresponsible person related to that particular Risk and, therefore, no amount of Risk is valid for them to handle.

    Those who have shown/demonstrated that they place others (or themselves) in danger with their actions should be addressed - but it should not be that everyone is PRE-SUMED to be irresponsible. That kind of attitude precludes the pursuit of Life, Liberty & Happiness.

    Freedom can be a messy and dangerous thing. The alternative is usually more dangerous.

    (I'll end my comments here - arguments almost never change people's minds - carry on)

    ...

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    When I read of gun owners having conniptions over needing to dry-fire prior to disassembling the gun, I think there's someone who should not have guns. If ascertaining that a gun is empty is such a frightening requirement, I have to wonder how they are able to be sure that there is nothing in front of them when they put their car into gear and press the accelerator.
    There are only two kinds of guns. Those I have and those I want.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    I see vehicles who drive over the white line the entire time...I think they're afraid of the other cars on the road. It's usually minivans.
    Galations 6:9...And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
    Ashli Babbitt - Patriot

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Remember: crossing a fog line not justification for a traffic stop.

    Individual judgment, vs. Systemic judgment. Where does your liberty be?
    Does your vote matter?

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