SHTF, TEOTWAWKI ......... and reality

[TonyF]

This is a spin-off of Mtbkski's "hauling your personal gear".

First and foremost this is not directed at Mtbkski.

But I'm curious.

How does one person, lets say the man of the house, of a typical family unit, expect to defend the home or homestead against a band of looters and pillagers?

How does a married couple with children aged 6 months to 10 years old expect to defend the home against a band of looters and pillagers?

I don't care how much ammo you carry on your person, defending a fixed position against multiple threats is complicated and would require other members of the household to have some knowledge of team tactics.

Even so, what happens if ....

What happens if your wife gets shot and your kids are screaming as they watch your wife bleed out.

What happens if one of your children gets shot and your wife is screaming at you to do something? Meantime, the looters and pillagers are still threatening to over-run your home / refuge?

Anyone know anything at all about treating a gunshot wound?

Is everyone in your family "weapons capable"?

Is everyone in your family capable of operating "in concert" with one another in basic, small unit tactics?

I'm completely taken aback by discussions centering around SHTF / TEOTWAWKI whereby the patriarch of the family unit feels confident in his ability but doesn't seem to have given any forethought to whether their family members are going to be able handle themselves in a crisis situation. Especially those of you with a spouse who isn't "into" guns.

I'd appreciate you guys sharing some of the scenarios you've been "war gaming". I think that some of you would benefit from some candid discussion that might expose some flaws in your plans.

[reichebrown]

Well me and the wife play a lot of COD-4, and shes a nurse so we should be good.

[sluggie24]

I already purchased body armor for my son. (it was gonna be for me but it is a bit small so he gets it) Teaching him to shoot as we speak.............

[The_War_Wagon]

There's only one training film necessary, for those of us in the urban cessmaze. The Alamo.

I talked to my wife months ago, about taking the kids with her to her folks' place out in far western Nebraska. They got no place for her, and there's nothing there to help our special needs kids. So we have decided to stay. We'll hold 'em off as best we can, and whatever happens, we all go together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdki9fGsR0E (about 43 seconds in, is where the explanation STARTS)

That's our motto - we hold 'er to the last - win or lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmk7jCbETIE

No shame in going down fighting - so much the better for everyone who makes it through.

Bob

[Cyo]

IMHO, it's rather silly to think that most folks are going to defend their homes very well against a band of organized attackers. If Red Dawn happens, hunkering down in the bedroom with the Mossberg, the AK and the 1911 isn't going to mean much. If your family happens to be made of up of a highly coordinated military unit and you live in a bunker that will stop a .50 Cal, you might last a little while. Otherwise, it's the morgue or the camps for you.

However, that type of situation is 99.9% fantasy anyway. What would fall in to the only 'highly unlikely' category is a roaming mob or band of looters. I think in the case of the rioting mob, a single person does stand a chance at defending the home/staving them off. Why? Because I'm guessing that once the people in the back row of the mob get a real good look at the impact of 00 Buck or .223/7.62 ammo on the people in the front row, they are going to be seeking easier targets. A mob isn't generally organized or disciplined. Unless there is a highly compelling reason for the whole mob to want to get into your house, I'm willing to bet that some well placed blast will encourage those still standing to seek easier prey.

In that case, I think one could reasonably expect to defend one's home against a band of pillagers.

[TonyF]

No shame in going down fighting - so much the better for everyone who makes it through.

Bob

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going out on my knees either. I'm just challenging some potential misconceptions.

[The_War_Wagon]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going out on my knees either. I'm just challenging some potential misconceptions.

I'm half-thinking/half-hoping... it goes SOMETHING like the '92 LA riots, which, if you'll recall news footage of the day, would pan across a suburb slowly, wherein you'd see... burned out building... burned out building... burned out building... Korean grocery store, with rifle toting Koreans on the roof... burned out building... burned out building... Didn't take LONG, to figure out the picture!

I think CYO has the right idea - ain't no TYPICAL riotous sort, gonna wanna tangle with AIMED .308 fire, from the guy on the roof in body armor, kevlar helmet, and molle carrier full of mags. Crackheads remain, the exception that proves the rule, however...

Bob

[Kaos]

I'd really try to run depending on the threat.

The best thing you can do is band together with like minded folks, one man cannot do it all alone. And as much as you have faith in your family they are likely not in that frame of mind.

If you CC you have already made the decision that you would take a life if you absolutely had to, most members of your family have only thought of it while watching a movie and then dismissed it.

My neighborhood? We'd be screwed.

I believe Im the only armed one in the whole developement from the chats I've had with the other homeowners here.

[Guns4Fun]

I have not read the post that you were talking about but i have read enough SHTF threads to form an opinion on this. I think too many people think they are RAMBO and will be able to single handedly hold down the fort.

I have no grand illusions about fending off a large band of armed looters. In fact, that thought scares the crap out of me. I'd personally hate to have to kill people to protect my family and property. But if it is us or them they will be in for a surprise, we will not lay down.

I don't have a non gun lovin wife anymore. Went through the big D a few years back. My daughter is grown and out of the home so, it is just my 14yr old son and I.

What i have done is i have kevlar vests and plates for both my son and i. I have a crap load of fully loaded mags. I have cameras on my property and night vision goggles for both my son and i. I am no surgeon but i have had a few first aid classes and some quick clot to stop the bleeding. Although if my son got shot, i honestly don't know how that would affect my ability to fend off the "bad guys". I might just give up to help him so he doesn't bleed out. God i hope it never happens. I'd put him to the back of the house and me to the front. We'd keep shooting our full auto guns until the crowd ran off or we were overtaken. My son is pretty good at shooting paper with semi guns and full auto but to be honest again, i'd hate to actually tell him he needed to shoot at real people. I think he could do it if he knew it were either us or them but as a dad, i'd hate for him to "need" to do it.

Believe me, i have no real confidence that we could hold off a determined mob with just the 2 of us. But we sure as heck would give it a shot.

Believe me when i say, a SHTF situation is not something that i sit up nights hoping for. It would be very bad for everyone if our society broke down that far. Real life is a lot different than the movies.

[ReefBlue]

This is a spin-off of Mtbkski's "hauling your personal gear".

First and foremost this is not directed at Mtbkski.

But I'm curious.

How does one person, lets say the man of the house, of a typical family unit, expect to defend the home or homestead against a band of looters and pillagers?

How does a married couple with children aged 6 months to 10 years old expect to defend the home against a band of looters and pillagers?

I don't care how much ammo you carry on your person, defending a fixed position against multiple threats is complicated and would require other members of the household to have some knowledge of team tactics.

Even so, what happens if ....

What happens if your wife gets shot and your kids are screaming as they watch your wife bleed out.

What happens if one of your children gets shot and your wife is screaming at you to do something? Meantime, the looters and pillagers are still threatening to over-run your home / refuge?

Anyone know anything at all about treating a gunshot wound?

Is everyone in your family "weapons capable"?

Is everyone in your family capable of operating "in concert" with one another in basic, small unit tactics?

I'm completely taken aback by discussions centering around SHTF / TEOTWAWKI whereby the patriarch of the family unit feels confident in his ability but doesn't seem to have given any forethought to whether their family members are going to be able handle themselves in a crisis situation. Especially those of you with a spouse who isn't "into" guns.

I'd appreciate you guys sharing some of the scenarios you've been "war gaming". I think that some of you would benefit from some candid discussion that might expose some flaws in your plans.

Please don't try to inject reality into people's fanatsies.

The first thing people should be required to do is explain exactly what would cause sudden mass rioting and lawlessness. Pennsylvania is far from subject to natural disasters. When was the last time Harrisburg had a hurricane or earthquake?

Once a logical and rational explanation of what would cause overnight elimination of services, they they can explain who would be making these mobs up. Isn't there some kind of disaster? How are these mobs forming and covering any real territory in the first place?

Unless you're talking flooding, which prevents all real movement, how long do you honestly think it would be before some sort of enforcement agency would be back in position?

And a last thing--I've taken some very realistic training both with and without firearms, and I will say this--being attacked happens so incredibly fast. You'd have 4 intruders in your living room before you even realized you needed your gun.