Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    OK- Don't think local/state courts will follow this logic I get it and I guess they are correct but...
    I see a new 4473 coming out in '21.

    https://gazette.com/news/courts/resa...taFrapKjxrTfQg
    A federal court has dismissed the allegation that a man lied on a federal form when purchasing firearms, determining it is not a violation to buy weapons for the purpose of reselling them.

    “Notwithstanding the evidence that defendant purchased these weapons for resale in Mali, I therefore conclude that the United States has not demonstrated probable cause to believe that defendant made a false statement,” wrote U.S. Magistrate Judge N. Reid Neureiter in a Dec. 16 order.

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office charged that Mamadou Kouyate purchased 13 firearms in January 2019 from a dealer in Denver, attesting on the transaction record that he was the actual purchaser of the guns when he allegedly was not. The form from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives warns that “You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person.”
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/SOT Saylorsburg, PA. Sales/Service/Transfers/Training
    NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun Merit badge counselor. US Navy Marksmanship Team Staff

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    I been following that story , it looks like they were straw purchases to me ?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Quote Originally Posted by 57springer View Post
    I been following that story , it looks like they were straw purchases to me ?
    That fucking guy was shady as fuck and they all knew it..but the point is according to the court...if you answer honestly that you are buying them, but are going to resell them to anyone it's ok cause the "straw" implies you are getting them for someone specific vs anyone.

    Maybe GL can better x'spain but that's my take.
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/SOT Saylorsburg, PA. Sales/Service/Transfers/Training
    NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun Merit badge counselor. US Navy Marksmanship Team Staff

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Sounds like they charged him with the wrong crime. He wasn't making straw purchases, he was dealing without a license.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Sounds like they charged him with the wrong crime. He wasn't making straw purchases, he was dealing without a license.
    That was my take away
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Sounds like they charged him with the wrong crime. He wasn't making straw purchases, he was dealing without a license.
    That's what it looks like. It would be a straw purchase if he handed the guns over to another without doing a transfer.
    The Hostler

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosco the Iroc View Post
    That fucking guy was shady as fuck and they all knew it..but the point is according to the court...if you answer honestly that you are buying them, but are going to resell them to anyone it's ok cause the "straw" implies you are getting them for someone specific vs anyone.

    Maybe GL can better x'spain but that's my take.
    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Sounds like they charged him with the wrong crime. He wasn't making straw purchases, he was dealing without a license.
    Sounds like you guys have it. If your brother gives you money to buy his gun for him, that's a straw purchase. If you use your money and intend to sell them to undetermined others for profit, then you're the actual buyer, and you're dealing without a license.

    I didn't read the details, but selling to people in Mali seems like something that would require a boatload of forms and approvals.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    There's merit to carrying your backup mag in a backup gun.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Other argument is if they ruled the other way, then if you ever sold a gun you could get nailed.
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/SOT Saylorsburg, PA. Sales/Service/Transfers/Training
    NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun Merit badge counselor. US Navy Marksmanship Team Staff

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Technically the court was correct. So is Scruff. The guy was buying the firearms for himself; to resell. He should have been charged with Dealing Firearms Without A License. At the very least served with a cease and desist order from the BATFE restraining him from the illegal activity.

    I know a number of guys who were retailing firearms without an FFL. These guys would buy guns from licensed FFLs and then sell them off quasi retail.

    Most of these unlicensed retailers that I knew were given the chance by the ATF to acquire said FFL or be served with a C&D order. Most went the FFL route. A very few got lippy and snotty with the ATF representatives. They're no longer retailing firearms. From what I understand the ATF people smoothed over the red tape for these small, mostly gun show or home based, dealers to get their FFLs.

    I just noticed the guy was going to try to sell these overseas in Mali. Well that adds a whole 'nother dimension to this.
    Last edited by ScotsGuards; December 29th, 2020 at 03:43 PM. Reason: additional information

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Resale of guns does not constitute lying on federal firearm forms-Fed court

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Sounds like you guys have it. If your brother gives you money to buy his gun for him, that's a straw purchase. If you use your money and intend to sell them to undetermined others for profit, then you're the actual buyer, and you're dealing without a license.

    I didn't read the details, but selling to people in Mali seems like something that would require a boatload of forms and approvals.
    Apparently this wasn't a one time job
    Six days after the purchase, airport authorities found two of the pistols in the luggage of Kouyate*s wife on her way to Mali. She explained to Customs and Border Patrol personnel that her husband had instructed her to give the guns to his brother in Bamako, Mali, for his own protection in the African country.

    In October of this year, when Kouyate and his wife were interviewed for their citizenship applications by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, Kouyate provided the same explanation for the guns found at the airport, while elaborating that he was trying to start a gun club in Mali to export weapons. Over the prior year and a half, he had purchased 106 pistols, including up to 20 at one time, from the Denver gun shop.

    Investigators believed Kouyate was involved in firearms trafficking, with the intent to transfer the guns purchased to someone else. ATF Special Agent Joseph Acosta attested that Kouyate *knowingly made a false and fictitious written statement* on the federal form.

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