Beretta 92 appreciation with a few minor complaints

[zachomega]

I know the Beretta 92 usually brings out people who love the pistol and those who absolutely detest them. I am a defender of the Beretta 92.

My first semi automatic pistol was a Beretta 92fs. I find the ergonomics work for me. I know it isn't a popular opinion, but i also prefer the slide mounted safety. It is out of the way and my hands are large enough to access it without changing my grip. I have a bad habit of accidentally activating frame mounted safeties that are positioned too low or with a weak detent.

Yesterday i picked up a new Beretta 92a1. The clerk told me i have caviar taste. I laughed.

So the gripes - the double action trigger out of the box is like a million pounds. They know the d spring works. They include it from the factory on some of the newer models. Why not every model?

And let's talk about the polymer coated parts. Yes, i have zero reason to believe that they will ever fail. But Beretta knows nobody really wants that and even sells a factory metal parts kit. Going back to the caviar statement, it isn't a cheap gun. Just include the metal parts. The polymer parts just kind of cheapen the feel of an otherwise excellent gun.

-Zach

[chauncey]

I don't love or hate the 92/96.

What I hate is the military's obsession with the use of a manual safety in the manual of arms for pistol use.

The slide mounted safety makes me shift my hand to an awkward grip that is not suitable for a good DA trigger pull.

If the manual safety had stayed on the frame or if the DOD had just adopted the decock version only, the 92/96 just becomes a slightly less size efficient and user friendly Sig legacy gun.

I have a 96G and my muscle memory vs. my 229 is close enough to have crossover proficiency.

The safety on my 92FS messes up my overhand slide release by rewarding me with a dead trigger after a reload or TapRackBang.

[TooBigToFit]

It's a solid gun that gets a lot of undeserved hate. That being said, I think compared to some of the other guns that grew up in the same era, it has not aged as well...

1) Decocker/safety: Yeah, this is the biggest issue I have with the gun. Now, I have a 92G, which fixes one of the issues, but others remain. It's both too easy and too hard to hit. It's possible to hit it if your finger slips while racking it (I personally haven't had this issue). Yet, it's harder to reach when you are done shooting. (For reference, my favorite decocker location of all DA/SA guns I've shot has been the HK P2000/P30 style decocker).

The safety is redundant. I'm not against safeties if that's your preference, but the safety should allow you to do cocked and locked. Decocked and locked like the Beretta has it is unnecessary. Either have a decocker and no safety (designed to be carried hammer down), or no decocker and a safety (designed to be carried cocked and locked). I personally disable the safety on all of my HK USPs by converting them to V3.

2) Sights: This has been fixed on the newer releases of the gun, but I really don't understand why you would have a fixed front sight, but dovetailed rear. It's damped my desire to use my 92 as a suppressor host.

3) External worky bits: So much of the gun's working bits are exposed. Trigger bar moves back and forth, you can see the firing pin block move up and down. No other pistol has so many of their components on the outside of the gun. This has also limited the ability to attach optics to the gun, though Langdon has addressed this.

4) Grip: It's chunky. And this is coming from a USP guy. It's easier to make a small grip bigger than a big grip smaller. It's a lot more slippery than it ought to be too.

Compare it to say, the Sig P226, which has adopted things like red dots easily, has come out in safety equipped SAO version for those who prefer that, and have always had dovetailed sights, it's hard to argue that 92 has aged as well.

[zachomega]

I don't love or hate the 92/96.

What I hate is the military's obsession with the use of a manual safety in the manual of arms for pistol use.

The slide mounted safety makes me shift my hand to an awkward grip that is not suitable for a good DA trigger pull.

If the manual safety had stayed on the frame or if the DOD had just adopted the decock version only, the 92/96 just becomes a slightly less size efficient and user friendly Sig legacy gun.

I have a 96G and my muscle memory vs. my 229 is close enough to have crossover proficiency.

The safety on my 92FS messes up my overhand slide release by rewarding me with a dead trigger after a reload or TapRackBang.

That is an excellent point about tap rack bang. Kind of a solid reason to convert to g. I had considered it and decided not to. But your point is excellent. Thanks!

It's a solid gun that gets a lot of undeserved hate. That being said, I think compared to some of the other guns that grew up in the same era, it has not aged as well...

1) Decocker/safety: Yeah, this is the biggest issue I have with the gun. Now, I have a 92G, which fixes one of the issues, but others remain. It's both too easy and too hard to hit. It's possible to hit it if your finger slips while racking it (I personally haven't had this issue). Yet, it's harder to reach when you are done shooting. (For reference, my favorite decocker location of all DA/SA guns I've shot has been the HK P2000/P30 style decocker).

The safety is redundant. I'm not against safeties if that's your preference, but the safety should allow you to do cocked and locked. Decocked and locked like the Beretta has it is unnecessary. Either have a decocker and no safety (designed to be carried hammer down), or no decocker and a safety (designed to be carried cocked and locked). I personally disable the safety on all of my HK USPs by converting them to V3.

2) Sights: This has been fixed on the newer releases of the gun, but I really don't understand why you would have a fixed front sight, but dovetailed rear. It's damped my desire to use my 92 as a suppressor host.

3) External worky bits: So much of the gun's working bits are exposed. Trigger bar moves back and forth, you can see the firing pin block move up and down. No other pistol has so many of their components on the outside of the gun. This has also limited the ability to attach optics to the gun, though Langdon has addressed this.

4) Grip: It's chunky. And this is coming from a USP guy. It's easier to make a small grip bigger than a big grip smaller. It's a lot more slippery than it ought to be too.

Compare it to say, the Sig P226, which has adopted things like red dots easily, has come out in safety equipped SAO version for those who prefer that, and have always had dovetailed sights, it's hard to argue that 92 has aged as well.

Yes, the safety is very redundant. It is one of the few guns I truly trust to never go off if dropped or even thrown.

I've also not really had issues hitting the safety while racking the slide. But I really haven't practiced tap rack bang enough with it. As mentioned above, I'll be buying 2 g conversion kits very soon. I've never really had a misfire. But why chance that?

My 92a1 came with a threaded barrel. I'll probably never use a suppressor on it. So the sights are a non issue. I do recall a lot of people who wanted night sights having to have their front sight drilled out though to accommodate.

Funny you mention red dots. I'm not competing so optics are a bit of a non issue. I always liked that you could see the moving parts. But you are right, so few guns have external moving parts like that. I wonder how much of the exposed parts have to do with keeping out dirt and sand.

Anyway, i keep it as a carry or bedside gun. So it will never have optics.

The grip is something i can't argue. Traded a Ruger sr9 yesterday. The grip is very thin and it has 17 round magazines. Beretta definitely didn't use the space efficiently. That said, I'm so used to the grip on it that it feels very natural. I like the hump in the back. Funny because when I use other pistols, i tend not to like the hump.

You presented your argument really well. I wonder how many of the other wonder nines held up.

-Zach

[jthrelf]

The 92X addresses a ton of common complaints for the 92 series. I like it because of the reduced grip size mostly and the factory grips have great texture.

[zachomega]

The 92X addresses a ton of common complaints for the 92 series. I like it because of the reduced grip size mostly and the factory grips have great texture.

I did see one of the high end models also has a frame mounted safety and a steel frame. Obviously for competition.

-Zach

[jthrelf]

I did see one of the high end models also has a frame mounted safety and a steel frame. Obviously for competition.

-Zach

Yeah that things a beast. But I did just mean the base 92X, or you can go the LTT 92X...

[R L Suehr]

I really want a 92x. As was said above, it addresses almost all of the gripes I have with the gun. I've had an fs and currently have an s model. If panic pricing ever calms down, I definitely think I'm going to get the x model.

[carnival]

I have an original import 92s circa 1980. No polymer parts minus the grips. No firing pin safety (top of the slide exposed part), so, smoother trigger. No ambidextrous safety (rounded left side only) to accidentally trip when racking.
Pros - Much better trigger with an awesome reset, very slick action.
Cons - Tiny military sights, awkward heal magazine release.
Still I appreciate this classic design.

[Pete D.]

Found this....by chance just this morning:

Get on the coax and shoot below their feet!* I yelled to my tank gunner. *Don*t let them get too near!* He opened fire. There was total confusion, but we had to stay on mission. He responds, *Sir, there are too many of them.* I wasn*t trained for this*

Ten minutes earlier, the artillery, or indirect fire, was still raining down on us as we pushed through the berm in the middle of the desert. As we moved closer to the north the artillery began to let-up, but now the sound of automatic weapons could be heard.

We were second platoon, radio designation *White*. The other two platoons were *Red* and *Blue*. I popped my hatch and looked around for my Platoon Sergeant*s tank and saw it disabled just to my right. He had gotten out and was ground guiding the driver to walk the track back on. He was doing this while still not clear of the mines, while artillery was still popping, and on the business end of machine-gun fire.

Over on the left I saw flashes of light and heard rounds ricocheting off the hull of my tank. Who in the Hell was shooting at me? Why is my Platoon Sergeant putting himself in danger like that? I had already briefed him on the dangers of land mines in this immediate area.

I pulled the hatch down and rotated my commander*s copula around to make sure the rest of the platoon was following and grabbed the platoon radio mic. *White Four! Get back in and get buttoned-up. We are in the middle of contact! Out!*.

My objective was still a few clicks out at the twelve o*clock position. I have to continue to move forward, so the rest of the troops could move through the anti-tank mines and through the berm and continue the mission.

Then it happened. Popping out of the ground like whack-a-moles, thousands of Iraqi troops just seemed to appear out of the sand and started wildly shooting their AK-47s at us. They had been emplaced as forward observers for the artillery and mine-field and I suppose some kind of last line of defense for Saddam*s Iraqi border. Some were unarmed and carrying white flags or bed sheets, others shooting AKs. All of them, all running at the same time toward us had these strange expressions on their faces. They looked like mad men. Most of them had backpacks. We just had a briefing less than 24 hours earlier that some enemy troops had IEDs in their backpacks and were detonating them under tanks sending their own souls to Allah while trying to take U.S. tank crews with him.

My Platoon Sergeant saw them and jumped back into his tank and closed his hatch. They were on him first. The whole scene looked like ants jumping on a dead cockroach - they piled on and under his tank.

*Shoot some warning shots over their heads. We gotta get them off his turret. If they don*t jump off, just shoot them!*

*Yes, Sir!* responded my gunner as he rotated the turret toward White Four.

*All White units. Keep pushing North. Stay on mission* I said into the mic.

The enemy troops then saw my tank and two or three dozen of them started running my direction.

*Get on the coax machine gun and shoot below their feet!* I yelled to my tank gunner. *Don*t let them get too near!* He sprayed the coax. *Sir, they are jumping over the rounds.* I had never seen anything like it. These guys just continued to run and were jumping over the coax fire.

*Misfire! Immediate action! The coax has jammed. Sir, there are too many of them.*

I popped the commanders hatch to get on the 50 cal, but they were already too close. The two dozen had now turned into the hundreds. Where have they come from? I grabbed my brand spanking new Beretta M9 out of its holster and chambered a round. *Keef! Stop now!* They didn*t stop. They started climbing on the tank. I took aim at one of the big ones still carrying his AK-47, pulled the trigger*.Click. Nothing. Ejected the round and tried again. Click. *Crap!* I dove back into the tank and buttoned-up the hatches. I could hear gunfire ricocheting off the hull of my tank as the enemy troops climbed aboard.

In the end, they didn*t detonate any IEDs on my tank. Seems all were trying to surrender even though some were still armed. Firing at those you are trying to surrender to is not a good idea. Crazy. That M9 failed when I needed it the most, but I would have taken a life needlessly. I hated that pistol. I loved that pistol* I still have one as a reminder of what could have happened and what didn*t happen. It reminds me of the chaos and craziness of war.

NOTE: Before deploying to the middle east, I had been issued an old WW2 1911 Colt. That 1911 was very well used, most of the finish was gone, and rattled when you shook it. But it never failed to fire and you could always drop the targets at point of aim. The M9 was brand new. It had not been broken in much, if at all. Now, here are a bunch of soldiers taking brand new pistols with OPEN SLIDES to a desert environment. Since then, I*m sure the pistols performed well, once they had been in country a while and taken to the range a few times to get them to loosen up so that a few grains of sand wouldn*t create a jam-o-matic.
Adrian Tom Lowndes.

Pete