Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    I will be applying for my LTCF in Allegheny County in the next few weeks. Just need some advice, opinions, experiences, with my situation and the fact that any drug related charge is an immediate dis-qualifier for PA LTCF so my question(s) is related to that. I understand the depth of this question clearly can only be answered by an Attorney, and yes im in the process of finding one. Here we go.

    I understand PICS for purchasing a firearm (i fly through firearm purchase PICS background checks in less than 1 min, no joke) and PICS for LTCF is different. So here is my situation, my unfortunate situation 10 years ago. I had a misdemeanor charge from a different state (max 1 Year) in 2012. 5 years after the incident, i was eligible for expungement, subsequently, it is was expunged/sealed from my record. I have documents stating that "Petitioner can be treated as if the petitioner has never been convicted of the offense"

    My question is does PA acknowledge this? Ive researched a lot about PA, that expunged records, expunged/pardoned, in PA are good enough to pass LTCF PICS. SO how does my out of state expungement sit?
    Last edited by wahsnel; January 21st, 2021 at 03:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    You are correct in thinking you need an attorney to answer this for you. Good luck.
    Sticks and stones will break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    The Fedz never really expunge things. They just note that they have been expunged. ....they will always know.

    As for that the disclosure thing, if a certain security clearance requires full disclosure, for whatever reasons, even though the offense has been expunged - you must disclose that you were convicted of the certain crime. You make sure to state in those situations that they were expunged as well.

    When I have to renew my clearances to entire certain federal facilities I have to state EVERY arrest, ticket, etc ever. ...and yes, EVERY. They already know, they just want you to truthfully disclose it to tell if you are a lying, a liar, and untrustworthy.


    As for your expunged record, you should be good to go. If you do get a denial from the PICS, the sheriff will deny you. You then appeal the denial to the state police, which you than provide proof of the expungement.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    Thank you for your response. And yeah I figured itís never really ďexpunged.Ē And the part in the form where it says expunged means itís not a conviction directly there is what makes me think im okay. But the verbiage is always very confusing and last thing I want to do is incriminate myself.


    If I do get denied and i fill out the challenge form, same questions there....do I disclose the expunged information there or maintain and Iím legally allowed to say no. Catch is they they then realize itís a drug charge im sure Iíll be denied off character. What a juxtaposition. Lol

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    I'm not going to offer any advice but will share my experience.
    22 years ago, in Maryland, I was arrested and charged but never convicted. A year after my court date, after I had completed community service and probation, I petitioned and had my arrest and charge expunged. I was told by the judge and my attorney that I can answer No to any questions about the arrest of charge, the expungement doesn't so much "close" my record as much as it "deletes" it. The order I got (and supposedly every agency involved got) specifically states that all records are to be destroyed.
    That said, a couple years later I was applying for government contract work and I kept getting ignored for jobs I was well qualified to do. Finally I asked someone at one of those employers "what the heck". He went out on a limb and actually told me why I wasn't hired, it was because of that arrest. I then went to a friend of mine who was a state ttooper, he ran my record and the arrest popped up. The judge, and my attorney were both furious that the court order had been ignored. the judge placed the offending agencies and people in contempt of court. It got fixed right away after that.
    The short story is, expungements should erase the records completely, not just attach a note to them. But, don't count on it without double checking.
    The Hostler

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    Quote Originally Posted by wahsnel View Post
    Thank you for your response. And yeah I figured it*s never really *expunged.* And the part in the form where it says expunged means it*s not a conviction directly there is what makes me think im okay. But the verbiage is always very confusing and last thing I want to do is incriminate myself.


    If I do get denied and i fill out the challenge form, same questions there....do I disclose the expunged information there or maintain and I*m legally allowed to say no. Catch is they they then realize it*s a drug charge im sure I*ll be denied off character. What a juxtaposition. Lol
    If there is nothing else on your record, then it had to be the "expunged" incident that causes the flag. On a challenge, you would let them know that you had a certain conviction expunged.

    The sheriff is able to deny on character. That isn't the State Police's job. The State Police do not tell the sheriff(or a dealer for that matter) why they deny, telling them is against federal law.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    I'm not going to offer any advice but will share my experience.
    22 years ago, in Maryland, I was arrested and charged but never convicted. A year after my court date, after I had completed community service and probation, I petitioned and had my arrest and charge expunged. I was told by the judge and my attorney that I can answer No to any questions about the arrest of charge, the expungement doesn't so much "close" my record as much as it "deletes" it. The order I got (and supposedly every agency involved got) specifically states that all records are to be destroyed.
    That said, a couple years later I was applying for government contract work and I kept getting ignored for jobs I was well qualified to do. Finally I asked someone at one of those employers "what the heck". He went out on a limb and actually told me why I wasn't hired, it was because of that arrest. I then went to a friend of mine who was a state ttooper, he ran my record and the arrest popped up. The judge, and my attorney were both furious that the court order had been ignored. the judge placed the offending agencies and people in contempt of court. It got fixed right away after that.
    The short story is, expungements should erase the records completely, not just attach a note to them. But, don't count on it without double checking.
    Not the first time ive heard of LE not following through with expunging records fully. Glad you got it taken care of though.


    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    If there is nothing else on your record, then it had to be the "expunged" incident that causes the flag. On a challenge, you would let them know that you had a certain conviction expunged.

    The sheriff is able to deny on character. That isn't the State Police's job. The State Police do not tell the sheriff(or a dealer for that matter) why they deny, telling them is against federal law.

    Yup, if i do get flagged, it will be for the expungement. Im just not sure about PICS and what they can see or look for. And how if they flag me for an expungement. Since clearly the forms state that convictions that result in expungement do no apply. Its just a tricky situation all around.

    Here is where i need legal advice. On the challenge form, do i continue to say i have not been arrested/convicted etc and answer "NO" to all. Just not seeing how i can explain the expungement bc if i didnt have the expungement i would clearly not be able to be pass as a LTCF application in the first place, and yeah....

    Also if Sheriff does deny on character clause, am i basically barred for life. I already have it expunged, what else is there to do? Does the SP overrule the Sheriffs decision to deny me?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    IF I were in that position and had 'something' expunged, I would go with that and answer 'no' to the arrest question. If denied, I would want to know why, and if what was expunged was brought up, I would answer that 'expunged is expunged' and how did you get expunged information?
    I'm thinking it would be illegal for them to know the reason behind the expungement and therefore would not be able to use it against you.
    If the FBI were checking you out for a top secret Q clearance, then perhaps it matters, but for the PSP and the Sheriff's office, I think not. So, for NICS and PICS and for that level, 'expunged' means it's 'gone' and you're following the rules by answering 'no'.
    That's what I would do but wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.
    (IANALNDIPOOTV)
    IANAL. I don't give legal advice. I'm only stating my OPINION.
    (Did I really need to say that on an Internet forum? LOL)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    Anyone recommend Allegheny County Attorneys?

    Most of whom I contacted arenít contacting me back or are strictly defense attorneys and refer to me to someone else.


    Thanks!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PA LTCF Out of State Expungement Question

    I think Adam Kraut is out that way. If he is he should be a good choice. I looked around a little and he has a fakebook page.
    If you're afraid of the people you represent, you might be doing something wrong

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