Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    Got news for you, your inalienable rights can be taken away with Due Process, always have been able to do such from even before the US Constitution. Maybe you don't know this, that inalienable thing just means that you cannot lose the protected right by force of law, but you can lose it after conviction via Due Process.

    The Founding Fathers executed lots of people, for as little as stealing a chicken(yes, there is record of that). You can lose your right to keep and/or bear arms upon conviction of certain crimes. Now, as for what crimes and what grading of offenses is certainly open to debate and the state/fed governments are exceeding things.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

    Belongs in another thread for debate, because there is nothing much "debatable" about the question asked or the actual answer to the question.
    GL001 and I are addressing one of the replies, which promotes illegal activity.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: questions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonltz28 View Post
    I have a friend that has misdemeanor charges that prevent him from owning guns, His wife still does own guns. Is he allowed to go into a gun range
    to assist his wife? The wife doesn't have that much experience, and wants to take a new female gun owner to practice.
    Do ranges check ?
    The prohibited person cannot touch any firearm or ammo. Period. He cannot have control or custody.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: questions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonltz28 View Post
    I have a friend that has misdemeanor charges that prevent him from owning guns, His wife still does own guns. Is he allowed to go into a gun range
    to assist his wife? The wife doesn't have that much experience, and wants to take a new female gun owner to practice.
    Do ranges check ?
    Generally...the edges of the law are not a good place to be, no matter how legal it may be.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    I'm thinking his wife should find another instructor. Besides legality, husband/wife combos usually don't do exceptionally well with firearms instruction.
    Or any other kind of instruction.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Got news for you, your inalienable rights can be taken away with Due Process, always have been able to do such from even before the US Constitution. Maybe you don't know this, that inalienable thing just means that you cannot lose the protected right by force of law, but you can lose it after conviction via Due Process.

    The Founding Fathers executed lots of people, for as little as stealing a chicken(yes, there is record of that). You can lose your right to keep and/or bear arms upon conviction of certain crimes. Now, as for what crimes and what grading of offenses is certainly open to debate and the state/fed governments are exceeding things.
    inalienable rights or natural rights can never be taken or given away. they exist without any contract written or implied. government can either protect or deprive said rights. these rights exist for anyone past or present regardless of race, age, sex, color, creed, residence or place of birth. if someone commits a crime against written law then they can be found guilty and sent to prison. They do not lose any natural rights but they are deprived of exercising certain rights while incarcerated. by your logic our rights are granted by government and can be taken government which gives us no rights at all.

    https://pacificlegal.org/government-...of-our-rights/

  7. #27
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    GL001 and I are addressing one of the replies, which promotes illegal activity.
    exercising natural rights is "illegal activity".

  8. #28
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    exercising natural rights is "illegal activity".
    Going to someone else's gun range in violation of the law is not a "natural right".

    But if you want to hang your argument on Jefferson's words:

    In describing natural rights, Jefferson first writes that *all men are created equal.* This equality is not one of result, in which material benefits might be confiscated and redistributed, but one in which no individual enjoys any rights-based advantage over their neighbors due to heredity, and all are held equal before the law.
    Clearly Jefferson, and many other founding fathers did not actually believe this - as they owned slaves and baked legal slavery right into the constitution. Such people clearly viewed some people as NOT being equal and NOT having inalienable rights. There's no way around it.

    They were perfectly willing to trade this concept, and the "natural rights" of some people for the creation of the nation they wanted to created. Principles exercised only when convenient are not principles at all.

    Specifically, Jefferson describes the broad categories of natural rights as including *Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.*
    That's great - but he was perfectly willing to deprive a large swath of people of those rights - through no fault of those people - simply because it was to his benefit to do so.

    According to Jefferson*s model, there is no such thing as *women*s rights,* or *gay rights,* or *minority rights,* which can be granted, modified, or restricted based on nothing more than the political winds or desires of fluctuating majorities. There is only inherent human equality and the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness possessed by all regardless of particular circumstances.
    That clearly isn't true. He obviously did NOT believe this, for the reasons specified above.

    Overall, the credibility of Jefferson and his cohorts on the subject of "natural rights" is severely lacking.

    I agree rights are not issued by the government. However, I don't think hanging that argument on the words of men who failed to do the right thing at the right time, when they had the chance to do so, is a particularly convincing argument - the "they did the best they could" excuse not withstanding.
    Last edited by free; November 2nd, 2020 at 11:10 AM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    exercising natural rights is "illegal activity".
    Dunno if they are just giving you enough rope to hang yourself, or what, but back when the forum rules were enforced, you would have been banned - either for a week, or permanently - for suggesting illegal activity on the forum.

    There's how you think the world should be, and then there's the way it actually IS.
    SATURDAY February 20 PAFOA Group Shoot! All Welcome! (click here for info)

  10. #30
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    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    inalienable rights or natural rights can never be taken or given away. they exist without any contract written or implied. government can either protect or deprive said rights. these rights exist for anyone past or present regardless of race, age, sex, color, creed, residence or place of birth. if someone commits a crime against written law then they can be found guilty and sent to prison. They do not lose any natural rights but they are deprived of exercising certain rights while incarcerated. by your logic our rights are granted by government and can be taken government which gives us no rights at all.

    https://pacificlegal.org/government-...of-our-rights/
    Natural rights can be taken away or given away. Your highest natural right can be taken away with as little as a piece of rope.

    My logic nowhere near dictates that a government grants our rights. No right is absolute, not life, not speech, not to keep/bear arms.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

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