Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 39
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Glockin, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,528
    Rep Power
    21474847

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    All gun laws are infringements. If I were him then I'd do whatever I wanted unless he consented to being ruled but his rights still exist.
    While this is true in sentiment, it really only applies universally to law abiding citizens. We consent to the government infringing on some people's rights if they are bad and have hurt people. This is why if you commit a serious enough crime, you are put in prison.

    Lifetime prohibitions for certain offenses can certainly be debated. But the general rule is - yes, in our system of government, if you fuck up enough some of your rights can be taken away.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    butler, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
    Posts
    1,167
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    While this is true in sentiment, it really only applies universally to law abiding citizens. We consent to the government infringing on some people's rights if they are bad and have hurt people. This is why if you commit a serious enough crime, you are put in prison.

    Lifetime prohibitions for certain offenses can certainly be debated. But the general rule is - yes, in our system of government, if you fuck up enough some of your rights can be taken away.
    inalienable rights are rights that we are unable to give up, even if we wanted to. I could sign a contract to be a slave but I still have the right to liberty and being free. Even with the contract no one has the right to enslave me and I would have no obligation to keep it. I've never consented to being governed either but if I did I wouldn't lose inalienable rights.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,904
    Rep Power
    21474863

    Default Re: questions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    All gun laws are infringements. If I were him then I'd do whatever I wanted unless he consented to being ruled but his rights still exist.
    This forum has rules about telling others to violate the laws. You can't do whatever you want here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    While this is true in sentiment, it really only applies universally to law abiding citizens. We consent to the government infringing on some people's rights if they are bad and have hurt people. This is why if you commit a serious enough crime, you are put in prison.

    Lifetime prohibitions for certain offenses can certainly be debated. But the general rule is - yes, in our system of government, if you fuck up enough some of your rights can be taken away.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    inalienable rights are rights that we are unable to give up, even if we wanted to. I could sign a contract to be a slave but I still have the right to liberty and being free. Even with the contract no one has the right to enslave me and I would have no obligation to keep it. I've never consented to being governed either but if I did I wouldn't lose inalienable rights.
    Your right to "life" and "liberty" are also inalienable. Unless you commit crimes, in which case the government might deprive you of one or both, and if the government won't, the victims or their next of kin or the community at large might step up and break your kneecaps or hang you from a tree.

    Our collective right to be armed can't properly be alienated, but YOUR rights can be forfeited by your behavior. When the Brits tried to disarm the free folks of Lexington and Concord, they started a war. But nobody has solid arguments about why rapists and burglars shouldn't be punished.

    It's arguable that TOO MANY crimes are punished with deprivations of gun rights, and most knowledgeable folks here would agree. Even some judges agree. But it's clearly not true that nobody's rights should ever be taken away for whatever crimes they commit.

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonltz28 View Post
    I have a friend that has misdemeanor charges that prevent him from owning guns, His wife still does own guns. Is he allowed to go into a gun range
    to assist his wife? The wife doesn't have that much experience, and wants to take a new female gun owner to practice.
    Do ranges check ?
    Whether they check or not, it's illegal for him to have custody, control, possession, or access. Standing right there and telling the wife what to do sounds like "control".

    Nobody thinks they'll be caught breaking the law. Just ask any of the million prisoners in the USA jails.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    There's merit to carrying your backup mag in a backup gun.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19,161
    Rep Power
    21474870

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    inalienable rights are rights that we are unable to give up, even if we wanted to. I could sign a contract to be a slave but I still have the right to liberty and being free. Even with the contract no one has the right to enslave me and I would have no obligation to keep it. I've never consented to being governed either but if I did I wouldn't lose inalienable rights.
    Your highest right, which is your right to life, can be taken away. It is called Due Process. All the "enlightened Constitutionalist" folks that spew on about any gun law being an infringement cant ever seem to read the 5th or 14th Amendments.

    If you can be executed, or even jailed for life, you can lose lessor right for life as well.

    The problem isn't being able to lose a right, the problem is the grading of offenses, or criminalizing acts that have no victims or high potential to cause victims. The 1year federal offense and 2 year state misdemeanor convictions can certainly be argued to be unconstitutional, but any felonious conviction cannot be.

    You may not know this, but back during our Founding Fathers time period - ALL felonies were executable offenses. They have since narrowed what you can be executed for.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    butler, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
    Posts
    1,167
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range


  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    48
    Posts
    19,161
    Rep Power
    21474870

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by mpyingling22 View Post
    The Declaration of Independence only had power against the United Kingdom and has no power in US government today(except to continue to serve as divorce papers to the UK).

    Unalienable/inalienable isn't in the US Constitution, nor was the right to keep and bear arms listed in the Declaration of Independence to King George III.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    butler, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
    Posts
    1,167
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: questions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    This forum has rules about telling others to violate the laws. You can't do whatever you want here.



    Yep.



    Your right to "life" and "liberty" are also inalienable. Unless you commit crimes, in which case the government might deprive you of one or both, and if the government won't, the victims or their next of kin or the community at large might step up and break your kneecaps or hang you from a tree.

    Our collective right to be armed can't properly be alienated, but YOUR rights can be forfeited by your behavior. When the Brits tried to disarm the free folks of Lexington and Concord, they started a war. But nobody has solid arguments about why rapists and burglars shouldn't be punished.

    It's arguable that TOO MANY crimes are punished with deprivations of gun rights, and most knowledgeable folks here would agree. Even some judges agree. But it's clearly not true that nobody's rights should ever be taken away for whatever crimes they commit.



    Whether they check or not, it's illegal for him to have custody, control, possession, or access. Standing right there and telling the wife what to do sounds like "control".

    Nobody thinks they'll be caught breaking the law. Just ask any of the million prisoners in the USA jails.
    I'll "violate" unconstitutional laws any time that I wish. What others do is up to them. We all have inalienable rights to self protection and to private property. Government can never take away those rights but they can suppress them. Government can make slavery legal but the slaves still have the inalienable right to freedom.

    "Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal, fundamental and inalienable (they cannot be repealed by human laws, though one can forfeit their enjoyment through one's actions, such as by violating someone else's rights). Natural law is the law of natural rights.

    Legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system (they can be modified, repealed, and restrained by human laws). The concept of positive law is related to the concept of legal rights"

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    butler, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
    Posts
    1,167
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    The Declaration of Independence only had power against the United Kingdom and has no power in US government today(except to continue to serve as divorce papers to the UK).

    Unalienable/inalienable isn't in the US Constitution, nor was the right to keep and bear arms listed in the Declaration of Independence to King George III.
    No piece of paper grants us our inalienable rights. They exist whether we have the constitution or not.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    butler, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
    Posts
    1,167
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    The Declaration of Independence only had power against the United Kingdom and has no power in US government today(except to continue to serve as divorce papers to the UK).

    Unalienable/inalienable isn't in the US Constitution, nor was the right to keep and bear arms listed in the Declaration of Independence to King George III.
    https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/201...tional-rights/

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    28,758
    Rep Power
    21474879

    Default Re: qu7estions about going to a gun range

    What does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

    Belongs in another thread for debate, because there is nothing much "debatable" about the question asked or the actual answer to the question.
    SATURDAY February 20 PAFOA Group Shoot! All Welcome! (click here for info)

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SGL Range #300 Archbald - Some Questions
    By minuteman1970 in forum Lackawanna
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 26th, 2020, 08:34 AM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 20th, 2013, 10:33 AM
  3. Range Safety Officer questions
    By Rolsby in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: January 25th, 2010, 12:07 AM
  4. anthony arms range questions
    By hix45 in forum General
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: August 4th, 2008, 11:40 PM
  5. New to area, SE PA range questions
    By wmilstid in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: May 31st, 2007, 10:21 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •