Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Delkal View Post
    Why would you want to do that? Get a longer barrel with a standard flash hider and you will have more velocity and less noise/muzzle flash.

    And the BATF rules for pinned and welded are clear and the answer is all over the internet. Why are you asking us?
    Not easy or always possible to do a quick, cheap barrel swap on an AK or other types of non AR pistols so there’s that. I also don’t understand why the question cannot be asked here.

  2. #32
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    Mar 2012
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    Southern South Western South Eastern York county, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Delkal View Post
    Why would you want to do that? Get a longer barrel with a standard flash hider and you will have more velocity and less noise/muzzle flash.

    And the BATF rules for pinned and welded are clear and the answer is all over the internet. Why are you asking us?
    Why would I want to do that? Maybe I don't have a few hundred to throw at a new barrel. Maybe when they change the rules overnight there won't be any barrels to buy. Maybe I'm such a damn operator that I need a inefficient barrel setup just to make things fair for the other guy.

    I was asking here because I couldn't find the official ATF guide to pinning an extension. If I'm trying to stay legal, I only really care what the ATF puts in writing. At least I can argue that in court. The judge likely wont accept the argument that user RAWDogg435687 on ARFCOM said it was OK and perfectly legal, citing "the Constitution, MFer" as precedent.

  3. #33
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    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    I searched "atf rules pinned barrel extension" on google. The first hit is the national firearms act handbook. 200 pages of everything you need to know. On page 5 it says

    The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured
    The second hit was from The Law Office of John Pierce it also referenced the handbook and also says.

    The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

  4. #34
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    Mar 2012
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    Southern South Western South Eastern York county, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    The google foo is strong with you.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Newport, Pennsylvania
    (Perry County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    https://www.ammoland.com/2020/11/atf...#axzz6emKLWLX3
    Washington, DC * -(AmmoLand.com)- AmmoLand News has just received documents(embedded below) as part of an FOIA request that our team recently submitted to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) after the Agency*s recent Honey Badger pistol brace fiasco.

    The ATF turned over documents just last night that alleged the popular pistol brace company SB Tactical had misinformed the public about its pistol braces* legality. The ATF has said, despite repeated ATF warnings, that specific SB Tactical Brace models are not, in fact, braces, but instead, stocks that turn pistols into illegal short-barreled rifles in violation of the NFA.

    SB Tactical points to two classification letters on its braces, but according to the ATF, SB Tactical continues to market and sell dozens (23 models according to Freedom of Information Documents) of other models not covered by final determination letters. The ATF says that the only two braces covered by the letters are the original SB15 and MPX PSB.

    The ATF claims that SB Tactical markets its braces as *ATF Complaint* or *ATF Approved Technology,* but the website no longer makes statements about the ATF. AmmoLand News was not able to verify that the company used this language in marketing.

    Records received by AmmoLand News show that, on July 18, 2018, ATF sent a letter to SB Tactical that essentially amounts to a cease and desist letter.
    This isn't good. It's bad enough when our overlords are inconsistent. But I would expect our "allies" not to commit fraud in their marketing.

    Obviously, with shit like this, it becomes very easy to make the SB brands illegal and put all of the blame on the company.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

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  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Interesting. Disturbingly Interesting.
    SATURDAY February 20 PAFOA Group Shoot! All Welcome! (click here for info)

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Just came here to post this. If this information is accurate it looks like SB has been knowingly screwing buyers over since 2018. I bet they won't be taking care of all its customers like Honey Badger.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Going to wait and see what SB has to say.

    I mean, I can't imagine the A-TEE-F would lie about any of this.
    SATURDAY February 20 PAFOA Group Shoot! All Welcome! (click here for info)

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Setting aside the fact that none of this should be a debate, does anyone have a clue what type of standard the BATFE is using? If I wanted to start from scratch, and make both "braces" and "stocks", what are the tangible differentiating factors? Not interested in "intended to be used" BS. People use every product ever made in manners not intended, so that's not a realistic metric.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Preparing for AR pistols to become SBRs overnight...

    Burn the ATF.

    I mean ban.

    No wait.

    No, yea that first one is good too.

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