ATF Issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol

[jthrelf]

The question is, what makes this Honey Badger AR pistol different from any other AR pistol that ATFE says it's an SBR?

Noah

The fact that they have more guns and lawyers than you.

[USMC3531]

Reading elsewhere that OAL less than 26" was the key. Of course, this came from the interwebs so it must be true...

I dont see how 26" matters. If it was over 26" it could be just a "firearm" but if the brace is a stock it's still be an sbr

[Noah_Zark]

Reading elsewhere that OAL less than 26" was the key.

Wrong OAL would do it.

Noah

[Calzonewdippingsauce]

*If they make ARs illegal there will be another revolution.*

No there won*t be. Because they will ban them one make and model at a time so the rest of us sit around and go *oh well it doesn*t effect me so...*

You*ve gotta hand it to these guys they are making gun owners criminals one gun at a time while we sit around and bicker about how to abide by their edicts. They play the long game.

[USMC3531]

Wrong OAL would do it.

Noah

Please explain.

[Royinmontco]

My understanding is that the propietary brace and stock of the pistol and rifle variants are almost identical, with only a "small" change in the ruberized butt plate (the pistol version is split to allow an arm to fit through, with a strap).

This led the ATF to go "Hmmmmmm", and I guess they drew the line there.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

I hope the manufacture calls the ATF out and points out to them that under the legal federal definition of firearms sense the barrel is not mated into the stock with the trigger group made it into the stock they don*t make anything that even can be assembled into a firearm.

The fact that the trigger group is on the lower and the barrel is on the upper makes it not a firearm, Did SBR or a AOW.
The ATF has already dropped several prosecutions of people who were illegally manufacturing firearms, including for felons, when this defense was brought up.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/11/u...nvs/index.html

Story to long to post on phone.

[Delkal]

I don't agree with the ATF decision but I think Honey badger was a little too in their face about getting around the rules. There is an OAL issue I don't totally understand but I think the main reason is the pistol was identical in every way to the SBR except for a split in the buttpad others mentioned. It was proprietary and I think the "designed for pistol use" catchall bullshit got them. Check out the pics side by side. The difference was a joke.

The Honey Badger by Q: Your new Personal Offensive Weapon.

The original Honey Badger was developed at AAC by previous owner and Q CEO, Kevin Brittingham and his R&D team at the request of an elite US special operations group looking to replace their MP5-SD*s with an upgraded platform. Requirements included the ability to shoot a rifle caliber round while maintaining low visibility and excellent signature suppression. Developed in conjunction with 300 AAC Blackout, the Honey Badger was born, exceeded expectations, but never made it to the commercial market.

Enter the Honey Badger by Q. At first glance, this Honey Badger appears to be the same as the original. Q focused on taking the iconic *Badger to the next level and improved upon every technical aspect of the first-generation design. From the gas system to the trigger, and telescoping stock * HB 2.0 does not disappoint.

COMMON FEATURES & SPECS:

CALIBER: 300 BLK
CLEAR HARD COAT ANODIZED 7075 ALUMINUM RECEIVERS (shades of tan may vary)
FREE FLOATING 6061 ALUMINUM M-LOK HANDGUARD (shades of gray (grey?) may vary)
70° SAFETY SELECTOR
2-POSITION COLLAPSIBLE PDW STOCK
ADJUSTABLE, LOW-PROFILE GAS BLOCK
MUZZLE: 5/8-24 THREADS, TAPERED MUZZLE
TRIGGER: 2-STAGE
AR CONTROLS

SHORT BARRELED RIFLE

WEIGHT: 4 lbs 8 oz
LENGTH: 20 IN * 25 IN
BARREL: 7 IN, 1:5 TWIST
HANDGUARD: 6 INCH M-LOK
MUZZLE: CHERRY BOMB MUZZLE BRAKE


7* 300 BLK Pistol

WEIGHT: 4 lbs 8 oz
LENGTH: 20 IN * 25 IN
BARREL: 7 IN, 1:5 TWIST
HANDGUARD: 6 INCH MLOK
(according to the pics it has the cherry bomb muzzle break too)

https://www.liveqordie.com/products/honey-badger-sbr/

https://www.liveqordie.com/products/...badger-pistol/

[Noah_Zark]

Please explain.

The length of pull (LOP) is a factor in an AR pistol. The LOP is measured in a straight line from the face of the trigger to the rear of the brace. The rear of the brace is taken at its most extended position (if adjustable). The ATF has advised that a braced pistol with a length of pull in excess of 13.5 inches may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock. This would make the weapon an SBR. This keeps someone from installing a CTR stock on an AR pistol - the LOP exceeds 13.5".

In addition to length of pull, overall length (OAL) should be measured. OAL is considered the muzzle * minus removable muzzle devices * to the rear of the brace (either collapsed or folded to be in its shortest form). An OAL greater than 26 inches has the potential to change the designation of pistol to firearm (Federal definitions here, not necessarily PA's). Firearms in excess of 26 inches OAL may have vertical grips installed and remain non-NFA. Pistols with vertical grips installed sub-26 inches OAL can be considered AOW and are subject to the NFA. ATF is advising that foregrips * angled or otherwise * may not be used on pistol builds.

Does the Q Honey Badger comply with the above? No idea.

Noah

[Mr_Gixxer]

A pistol cannot have a length of pull because it doesn't have a stock.

The length of pull (LOP) is a factor in an AR pistol. The LOP is measured in a straight line from the face of the trigger to the rear of the brace. The rear of the brace is taken at its most extended position (if adjustable). The ATF has advised that a braced pistol with a length of pull in excess of 13.5 inches may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock. This would make the weapon an SBR. This keeps someone from installing a CTR stock on an AR pistol - the LOP exceeds 13.5".

This is just plainly wrong and cannot be cited in these words at all. It's an incorrect interpretation by forums, websites and gun owners that needs to stop being repeated.