Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    So the FFL got back to me. He spoke with the State Police and they stated that if it were to be assembled as a pistol, an SP-4 should be filed?

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG This was wrong when the PSP tried to do this back in July 2009 and they got their heads handed to them on a platter and they had to print a retraction in the newsletter (January 2010) they use to send to us FFLs every quarter.

    This FFL does not know the laws that he is supposed to know. A lower receiver is an OTHER no matter what condition it is received, stripped, complete with a rifle stock attached or with a pistol brace attached. It is a lower receiver (OTHER) until the owner puts an upper receiver on it completing the build.

    I will scan the page and see if I can't get it attached.

    Last edited by Xringshooter; September 29th, 2020 at 12:33 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Also, the second "Paragraph" in the picture I posted above is a pretty good one for anyone who has been denied and has questions.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG This was wrong when the PSP tried to do this back in July 2009 and they got their heads handed to them on a platter and they had to print a retraction in the newsletter (January 2010) they use to send to us FFLs every quarter.

    This FFL does not know the laws that he is supposed to know. A lower receiver is an OTHER no matter what condition it is received, stripped, complete with a rifle stock attached or with a pistol brace attached. It is a lower receiver (OTHER) until the owner puts an upper receiver on it completing the build.

    I will scan the page and see if I can't get it attached.
    Thanks for the additional clarification. The FFL conceded to filing the 4473 at "other". I think his concern mostly comes from, what if I assemble the receivers as a pistol. He keeps bringing up the SP-4-113 form. I told him he can file for the SP-4-113 if he leaves Section E #50 blank since the receiver does not qualify.

    But FFL states that any receiver that becomes a pistol has to file a SP-4-113. I have never heard that statement before. Can anyone confirm or deny that statement or literature to clarify it? I hope to visit Tanner's tomorrow to pickup another receiver and I'll inquire their thoughts on building a pistol from a receiver and its documentation requirements.

    Looking on the PSP website, I see that the forms are only available to dealers and are unique to each dealer. No general form is used since it requires a dealer#. So that would mean that a civilian would have to go to a dealer to put in the SP4-113 applications/record of sales so that they can make their receiver into a pistol? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    Last edited by FJR86; September 29th, 2020 at 01:38 PM.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    *shakes head* So much fail.
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/SOT Saylorsburg, NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Quote Originally Posted by FJR86 View Post
    Thanks for the additional clarification. The FFL conceded to filing the 4473 at "other". I think his concern mostly comes from, what if I assemble the receivers as a pistol. He keeps bringing up the SP-4-113 form. I told him he can file for the SP-4-113 if he leaves Section E #50 blank since the receiver does not qualify.

    But FFL states that any receiver that becomes a pistol has to file a SP-4-113. I have never heard that statement before. Can anyone confirm or deny that statement or literature to clarify it? I hope to visit Tanner's tomorrow to pickup another receiver and I'll inquire their thoughts on building a pistol from a receiver and its documentation requirements.

    Looking on the PSP website, I see that the forms are only available to dealers and are unique to each dealer. No general form is used since it requires a dealer#. So that would mean that a civilian would have to go to a dealer to put in the SP4-113 applications/record of sales so that they can make their receiver into a pistol? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    1st paragraph - he does not file a SP4-113 for a receiver - PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE

    2nd Paragraph - AGAIN, HE IS WRONG The SP4-113 is only used when transferring a firearm (tell him to read the instructions for E). A VIRGIN LOWER IS NOT A FIREARM, IT IS AN "OTHER". It does not become anything until an upper receiver is mounted to it. There is no registration in PA so a builder of an AR, pistol or rifle has no duty to report what they have done - NONE.

    This FFL does not have a clue and apparently does not want to learn what the laws actually state, he uses hearsay to make his statements instead of actually doing his research. I'll bet he is an older person - probably a Fudd. If he is a younger person, he is just flat clueless and shouldn't even have an FFL, he is going to end up having someone get screwed by the system.

    3rd Paragraph - NO! The SP4-113 is only used at the time of a transfer, not at any other time.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    1st paragraph - he does not file a SP4-113 for a receiver - PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE

    2nd Paragraph - AGAIN, HE IS WRONG The SP4-113 is only used when transferring a firearm (tell him to read the instructions for E). A VIRGIN LOWER IS NOT A FIREARM, IT IS AN "OTHER". It does not become anything until an upper receiver is mounted to it. There is no registration in PA so a builder of an AR, pistol or rifle has no duty to report what they have done - NONE.

    This FFL does not have a clue and apparently does not want to learn what the laws actually state, he uses hearsay to make his statements instead of actually doing his research. I'll bet he is an older person - probably a Fudd. If he is a younger person, he is just flat clueless and shouldn't even have an FFL, he is going to end up having someone get screwed by the system.

    3rd Paragraph - NO! The SP4-113 is only used at the time of a transfer, not at any other time.
    So I picked up the receiver. No SP4 involved. He is an older gentleman. He apparently knows someone at the PSP that gave him the information that a newly assembled pistol, from a receiver, has to some how get SP4'd.

    My brother is a retired PSP Trooper, and he still has connections at the PSP. He is going to ask around and see what's up with that information and where that came from.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Quote Originally Posted by FJR86 View Post
    So I picked up the receiver. No SP4 involved. He is an older gentleman. He apparently knows someone at the PSP that gave him the information that a newly assembled pistol, from a receiver, has to some how get SP4'd.

    My brother is a retired PSP Trooper, and he still has connections at the PSP. He is going to ask around and see what's up with that information and where that came from.
    Well, you got the double whammy because everyone KNOWS that THE WORST TWO SOURCES for gun law info are:
    1. The police
    2. A gun shop

    They ganged up on you with double-dumb-assery!!!
    GROUP SHOOT! ALL WELCOME! October 17 near Pittsburgh - Click for info!

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Private FFL transfers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Well, you got the double whammy because everyone KNOWS that THE WORST TWO SOURCES for gun law info are:
    1. The police
    2. A gun shop

    They ganged up on you with double-dumb-assery!!!
    Not surprisingly someone my brother works with who also retired from the PSP. His statement contradicts the other PSP statement about requiring the SP4. His statement is consistent with those here and that is the SP4 is only done during the initial transaction.

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