Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
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    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosco the Iroc View Post
    Sheds light on what let up to the "situation" poor decision making.



    Really when did they come out?
    Concealed Weapons Permit/Concealed Carry Permit, you know what I mean. Lots of snot nose, wise-guy remarks here. If you have no value to add to my original post, please move on.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by edb4164 View Post
    Plenty of pompous responses here for some reason. No one said I didn*t appreciate the comments. This statement you quoted me was in my original post.
    lager1829 may be a bit presumptuous in assuming you do not appreciate the responses you received, but, you did come here to get the advice of people more experienced and knowledgeable than yourself on this issue, and the overwhelming majority (perhaps even all) the responses are consistently to get a lawyer. You seem to be resisting that idea, to your own detriment. What do you want to hear, that you can do it yourself, that it'll be fine? No one here believes it will work out that way, based on experience, but, of course, do what you want, it's your rights that will be taken away, not ours.
    Power always thinks...that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.

  3. #53
    PickingPA Guest

    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by edb4164 View Post
    Plenty of pompous responses here for some reason. No one said I didn’t appreciate the comments.
    You have been a member here for approximately.....1 day

    We welcome all new members, but clearly you came here looking for answers only after finding yourself in a pinch. The advice given doesn’t seem to line up with what you wanted to hear.

    Several long time members, with lots of experience, took the time to give you solid advice on how to move forward and protect your rights. But you still insist you can handle it yourself.

    So, the natural question begins to develop....”So why are you asking for advice if you’re not going to take it anyway?”

    After that point, what you call “pompous” is just what we call normal ribbing around here. I suggest you call a lawyer AND grow thicker skin

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by edb4164 View Post
    Concealed Weapons Permit/Concealed Carry Permit, you know what I mean. Lots of snot nose, wise-guy remarks here. If you have no value to add to my original post, please move on.
    Don't take it personally Ed, we all bust on each other pretty hard here.
    What the guys are trying to tell you is that based on our collective experience we all think you need a lawyer immediately.

    Your resistance to that advice is understandable, most people resist talking to lawyers, but based on your posts you really don't have much choice.
    There is always a chance that everything will work out fine on its own, but in this case that is highly unlikely.

    Many of us know Phil personally and we trust him.
    He would be my first call if I were in your situation.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    Don't take it personally Ed, we all bust on each other pretty hard here.
    What the guys are trying to tell you is that based on our collective experience we all think you need a lawyer immediately.

    Your resistance to that advice is understandable, most people resist talking to lawyers, but based on your posts you really don't have much choice.
    There is always a chance that everything will work out fine on its own, but in this case that is highly unlikely.

    Many of us know Phil personally and we trust him.
    He would be my first call if I were in your situation.
    Thanks. Yes, I am in contact with Phil now. Thank you everyone for the help. My resistance o speaking to a lawyer was for no reason other than I thought submitting the paperwork to the PSP proving I was not 302’d would clear it up. However, it seems the overwhelming majority of folks believe that isn’t the case. So, I will be using legal counsel for this matter.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Cranberry Twp, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Glad to hear it. Please let us know how everything turns out.
    -Brandon


  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oley, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Ed,

    I wasn't trying to bust your ass, and I wish it was as easy as you thought it should be. Your original email has this in it.

    "Long story short, the State Police have on file that I WAS involuntarily committed, even though I was not. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone did not believe me of course and told me to call the county and the hospital who filed it (he gave me that information after pushing pretty hard). I called these facilities and NONE OF THEM have ANY RECORD on file."

    I am concerned that no one has the paperwork or admitted to having the paperwork. And that guy at PSP who you had to "push pretty hard" to get anything out of... Yeah you probably felt he was an asshole. I figure he was the nicest guy there and the rest are bigger assholes. You asked for help, and the reason everyone shouted "Lawyer Up !" is that we have all seen people get screwed or been screwed by a bureaucratic machine that just chews people up. Hang around awhile and read the topics on the Philadelphia Gun Licensing Unit and you will quickly understand how process overtakes common sense and fair play. Good Luck in your fight, Phil is a great attorney.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna 19547 View Post
    Ed,

    I wasn't trying to bust your ass, and I wish it was as easy as you thought it should be. Your original email has this in it.

    "Long story short, the State Police have on file that I WAS involuntarily committed, even though I was not. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone did not believe me of course and told me to call the county and the hospital who filed it (he gave me that information after pushing pretty hard). I called these facilities and NONE OF THEM have ANY RECORD on file."

    I am concerned that no one has the paperwork or admitted to having the paperwork. And that guy at PSP who you had to "push pretty hard" to get anything out of... Yeah you probably felt he was an asshole. I figure he was the nicest guy there and the rest are bigger assholes. You asked for help, and the reason everyone shouted "Lawyer Up !" is that we have all seen people get screwed or been screwed by a bureaucratic machine that just chews people up. Hang around awhile and read the topics on the Philadelphia Gun Licensing Unit and you will quickly understand how process overtakes common sense and fair play. Good Luck in your fight, Phil is a great attorney.
    The process is atrocious. I know someone who's conviction was vacated in appeal by a federal panel of judges, after friends of the accuser said in court she lied to protect her brother who had molested her. When released with a vacated conviction, the PSP still went door to door in his neighborhood to let his neighbors know a sex offender was moving back. He had no recourse what so ever to clear his name.

    While police as individuals may be nice and want to help, the process is so screwed up you need someone with the patience and know how to fight it for you. It's really pretty sad...
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by edb4164 View Post
    You really think I need a lawyer at this point? You don't think I can sort this out on my own by proving the 302 never happened? An attorney will cost around $2,000 from what I hear!
    When you go talk to the lawyer, leave the wife at home. She's helped you enough already.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    ..., Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
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    Default Re: PA PICS Denial and Challenge Question - Wait until you hear this one!

    Please Note: The poster was issued a warning for this post.

    Get a lawyer.

    In fact get two.

    One that specializes in gun rights.

    One that specializes in divorce law. Sue her for false sworn statements on the 302, kidnapping and anything else you can think of. Sue the doctor as well, because if the conversation went the way you say it did, he is guilty of malpractice, and unlawful restraint, maybe civil rights violation under color of law. You may need a civil rights lawyer as well.

    You say:
    The doctor pulled my wife to the side and said "if you want him to stay here, I have some paperwork you can fill out and he will be ordered by law to stay".

    That is a criminal misuse of the reason an involuntary mental health commitment exists. A patient, who is mentally competent, always has the right to refuse care, even if doing so is medically stupid, and is going to very likely lead to their death.

    Have your lawyers, subpoena the hospital records. All of them. Lab work, imaging, nurses, doctors notes, the name of everyone working in the hospital that may have been witness in the ER, to include housekeeping staff, Security. and any EMS units that delivered patients or took patients out of the ER during your stay there that may have been witnesses.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

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