Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Angry POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    ... is apparently utter dog shit. I bought this upper from what I thought was a premium quality manufacturer with complete confidence and then when I went to shoot it, the short version is that it doesn't work. The problem is apparently that the rifle is undergassed to the point that it's effectively a single shot rifle even with the gas port opened up to 100%. I started 1 position from fully closed, fired 1 round, bolt didn't lock back, didn't even eject the round, and I wasn't upset yet; I expected it to not work on that setting. Anyway, I repeat that process 7 or 8 more times and at the point I realized my gas block was 100% open and continued to have rounds repeatedly fail to even fucking knock the gun out of battery, I got pretty angry. I was using a standard weight carbine buffer and strike industries flatwire buffer spring. I never even got around to testing the Omni Robusta MARRS magnetic buffer I brought with me.

    I messaged POF support when I got home and this is the conversation that followed. Here's what I sent.


    Right away, I'm fucking annoyed with this person. The way I read this is that it's dismissive and this person thinks they know everything about everything. They start right off saying the ammunition I was using doesn't exist (even though I spelled it with an extra C) and implying that the other ammunition is just underpowered junk. This is the same junk that was so underpowered that I had to put an adjustable block on my other 7.62 upper because it was WAY overgassed as discussed in the thread here in the rifle sub forum.


    My response is at the bottom, they are at the top. By the way, do a search right now for "geco 7.62x39" and you'll get plenty of results.


    Also, you know, because it doesn't exist ...


    Anyway, this whole experience with buying a high end upper to see if there's really any difference between it and what I built myself has been a spectacular failure. At least they responded quickly though I guess? My next response in so many words is going to be saying that I'd rather just send it back for a refund. We'll see how that goes. Now to take my flash hider, rail covers, 510C, dust cover, and vertical grip off of it and put the factory shit back on ... fun ...
    Hope this is not Chris's blood ...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Refund.
    "Let us drill a bigger hole" (and see if that works) is not something I want to hear.
    What I want to hear is, "Return it and we'll send you a new upper".

    Way too much money to get a gun that doesn't function - especially when it has an adjustable gas block and still wouldn't work.

    The AR15 gods must smile upon me because almost all my guns are frankenguns and I've never had any of them not work after assembly aside from needing an enhanced firing pin and extra power hammer spring in my x39 carbine.
    If I paid good money for what I expect to be a quality upper, I would be pissed if there were issues right out of the box.
    SOLD!!!!! AR15 Package Pittsburgh Click for INFO

  3. #3
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    Aug 2013
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    I just hope to hell those are your wife's socks!!!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    I just hope to hell those are your wife's socks!!!
    They are her socks but his legs.
    www.Steelvalleycasting.com is your new home for coated bullets and custom ammo.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DucatiRon View Post
    They are her socks but his legs.
    Haha! Yeah, Tracey took those photos while I was at work.
    Hope this is not Chris's blood ...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    I don*t find his response dismissive. These guys don*t know ammunition maker. You told him Geco 7.62 and he went to the site. He was correct! There is NO 7.62x39 on their site, sooo...

    7.62x39 ARs are NOTORIOUS for being under gassed and needing the gas port drilled larger. It*s no big deal. My son wanted a 7.62 AR so I built him one. And lo & behold.... it was undergassed!! I drilled a larger gas port and problem solved. Why on earth would you expect a NEW upper? Barrels have gas ports drilled to one spec. There is no way to know which will function each particular rifle. Some 5.56 ARs run fine with a .063*, some need a .068*-.071*. 7.62 AR15*s need at least a .078* or higher. I had to open my son*s to .093*. So getting a NEW upper is not a fix. FIXING the problem is. I know all of this because I made it my business to learn. For many years I have not had ANY problems with my firearms. NONE!

    But I guess that is why when I think about a high quality manufacturer, I think of myself. It*s why I build ALL of my rifles & pistols. Count on yourself to build & repair your own firearms. Everyone else is doing it for a $buck$.
    Time for “BLM Terrorist Group” Riots to stop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJEpXxXnfXw

  7. #7
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    I don*t find his response dismissive. These guys don*t know ammunition maker. You told him Geco 7.62 and he went to the site. He was correct! There is NO 7.62x39 on their site, sooo...

    7.62x39 ARs are NOTORIOUS for being under gassed and needing the gas port drilled larger. It*s no big deal. My son wanted a 7.62 AR so I built him one. And lo & behold.... it was undergassed!! I drilled a larger gas port and problem solved. Why on earth would you expect a NEW upper? Barrels have gas ports drilled to one spec. There is no way to know which will function each particular rifle. Some 5.56 ARs run fine with a .063*, some need a .068*-.071*. 7.62 AR15*s need at least a .078* or higher. I had to open my son*s to .093*. So getting a NEW upper is not a fix. FIXING the problem is. I know all of this because I made it my business to learn. For many years I have not had ANY problems with my firearms. NONE!

    But I guess that is why when I think about a high quality manufacturer, I think of myself. It*s why I build ALL of my rifles & pistols. Count on yourself to build & repair your own firearms. Everyone else is doing it for a $buck$.
    Honestly, I bought this upper because I'd been working a lot of overtime so I felt like rewarding myself, my confidence had been shaken by my failures to that point with this project, and so I thought I'd get something better from them than I was capable of putting together in my basement. I was mistaken unfortunately.

    I personally don't see the logic in building a firearm with a 9 position adjustable gas system but then drilling the gas port so small that you have to open it up all the way to have any chance of reliably ejecting or feeding anything. Why put an adjustable block on it then? Why not just use a fixed gas block if the gas port is drilling to that spec? Why not put a lightweight carrier in it if they are fine with having the gas port drilled so small? I could [I]maybe[I] get it to run with a reduced power buffer spring and lightweight carrier but I'm not spending more money to make it work. I bought a factory upper because I didn't want to tinker to have to make things work anymore. Also, in all the research I did prior to this unf0ortunate endeavor (a lot of good it apparently did me ...), I never heard anyone mention that rifles in this caliber are known to be undergassed. Light primer strikes, poor quality magazines, bolt faces and extractors breaking because of the larger diameter of the casing they're fitting into the same amount of space as a 5.56 chamber, but nothing about them being undergassed.

    Words matter. Saying you don't see that on their website and saying it doesn't exist are two different things. I took it as dismissive because the person is stating as a fact that I'm wrong and there is no such thing when they are mistaken. The combination of absolute confidence and willful ignorance make that person look like pretty bad in my opinion and it does not inspire confidence that contacting POF about this problem is going to have a happy ending.

    Tell me more about drilling out the gas port. Did you use a drill press or do it by hand? The way I see it playing out with POF is that they say it's drilled to spec, my ammo is the problem, and either send it back to me with no change or charge me a 15% restocking fee ($98) if I want to return it. In which case, I either drill it out myself, pay someone else to do it for me, or throw it off a cliff.
    Hope this is not Chris's blood ...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Gimme a few minutes. I gotta find a catcher's mit and get to the bottom of the cliff...
    SOLD!!!!! AR15 Package Pittsburgh Click for INFO

  9. #9
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    LOL! No kidding. I*d be right next you and we can try to out catch each other I*m 6*4* and have ape hanger arm reach, sooo

    It*s very easy. I drilled it in my mill...because I have it. But I would do it in a drill press or by hand even if I had to. First thing, remove the handguard, gas block..whatever need be to gain access to the gas port. Measure the size of the gas port. You only need an approximate here, because you will be drilling a bit of a step up. At least .010*-.015*..maybe more. You*ll want a good sharp drill bit. Almost all my drills M42 Cobalt. (8%).

    Where are you located? I*m outside of Philadelphia. I*d be happy to give you a hand with my tools. Just let me know.
    Time for “BLM Terrorist Group” Riots to stop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJEpXxXnfXw

  10. #10
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    Default Re: POF Renegade 7.62x39 upper quality control ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    LOL! No kidding. I*d be right next you and we can try to out catch each other I*m 6*4* and have ape hanger arm reach, sooo

    It*s very easy. I drilled it in my mill...because I have it. But I would do it in a drill press or by hand even if I had to. First thing, remove the handguard, gas block..whatever need be to gain access to the gas port. Measure the size of the gas port. You only need an approximate here, because you will be drilling a bit of a step up. At least .010*-.015*..maybe more. You*ll want a good sharp drill bit. Almost all my drills M42 Cobalt. (8%).

    Where are you located? I*m outside of Philadelphia. I*d be happy to give you a hand with my tools. Just let me know.
    I'm on the opposite side of the state but I appreciate the offer. I'll check it with my calipers and get a quality 3/32 bit if I decide to open it up. Thanks.
    Hope this is not Chris's blood ...

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