Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    The Founders tried their best with the Constitution they gave us. It isn't their fault that politicians, especially modern politicians, have passed law after law that directly contravenes it and there wasn't a Supreme Court that didn't rein them in.
    YEP - We began this downward spiral when the Supreme Court refused to protect THE PEOPLE from the government and strike down ANY LAW (no matter how good it's intent) that did not strictly meet the mandates of the Constitution. You compromise a little here, then a little there, and soon enough, you end up where we are with all three branches of government corrupted with political plots & ploys & preferences - And THE PEOPLE suffer the bad consequences...

    ...

  2. #22
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    What do you expect? Even for it's time, the Constitution was a very poorly written document. The guys who wrote it were arguing over what it meant. That should be an immediate red flag right there. If a recipe in a cookbook was written in such a way that 5 people could read the same thing and have a different idea of how to go about making it, then we could all agree that it's a pretty lousy recipe. However, virtually all of you give a total pass when it comes to the consitution.

    Here is a video I saw from a while back on a Georgetown Professor who thinks we should give up on the current constitution and make a new one. For the most part, I agree with him. I think the US should have drafted an entirely new Constitution at the end of the Civil War and then another one in the late 1960s/early 70s, since those were critical periods of change.


  3. #23
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    The constitution is the finest political document ever created and to me the meaning of every word is perfectly clear. If someone doesn't like what something says, they find it easy to pick it apart, twist it around and turn it against you. Just ask any angry wife when you say "Good Morning". It doesn't surprise me that those who resent the constitution call it unclear or a living document.

    The founders even accounted for its few flaws (slavery, etc) by creating a clear and specific way to make changes as time passes. No, its not easy to pass an amendment, but it shouldn't be something that is undertaken lightly as evidenced by prohibition.

    The real failing in our current situation is the consolidation of federal power after the civil war and the judges that empowered such foolishness. Laws were then passed that exceeded the authority given in the Constitution and we eventually end up here.

    If we had strictly followed by the Constitution over the years, we wouldn't be here now. The US may be a worse place or better, but we certainly wouldn't be in this particular mess.

    And as far as writing a new one, if you can produce ten people today that would construct a document that specifically limits their own power to preside over others, I will entertain that argument. Other than my late father and his brother, I have never met a single man as honest, sincere and selfless as the founders of this county were. Remember, George Washington turned down the position of King for Life.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by jesemd View Post
    The constitution is the finest political document ever created and to me the meaning of every word is perfectly clear. If someone doesn't like what something says, they find it easy to pick it apart, twist it around and turn it against you. Just ask any angry wife when you say "Good Morning". It doesn't surprise me that those who resent the constitution call it unclear or a living document.

    The founders even accounted for its few flaws (slavery, etc) by creating a clear and specific way to make changes as time passes. No, its not easy to pass an amendment, but it shouldn't be something that is undertaken lightly as evidenced by prohibition.

    The real failing in our current situation is the consolidation of federal power after the civil war and the judges that empowered such foolishness. Laws were then passed that exceeded the authority given in the Constitution and we eventually end up here.

    If we had strictly followed by the Constitution over the years, we wouldn't be here now. The US may be a worse place or better, but we certainly wouldn't be in this particular mess.

    And as far as writing a new one, if you can produce ten people today that would construct a document that specifically limits their own power to preside over others, I will entertain that argument. Other than my late father and his brother, I have never met a single man as honest, sincere and selfless as the founders of this county were. Remember, George Washington turned down the position of King for Life.
    Must spread rep.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialist_Millennial View Post
    What do you expect? Even for it's time, the Constitution was a very poorly written document. The guys who wrote it were arguing over what it meant. That should be an immediate red flag right there. If a recipe in a cookbook was written in such a way that 5 people could read the same thing and have a different idea of how to go about making it, then we could all agree that it's a pretty lousy recipe. However, virtually all of you give a total pass when it comes to the consitution.

    Here is a video I saw from a while back on a Georgetown Professor who thinks we should give up on the current constitution and make a new one. For the most part, I agree with him. I think the US should have drafted an entirely new Constitution at the end of the Civil War and then another one in the late 1960s/early 70s, since those were critical periods of change.

    Uh, no.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Several people have said the politicians and lawyers or the Constitution itself have failed us, but that's not true. We as a people have failed ourselves by outsourcing the meaning of the Constitution to politicians and lawyers that would rather infringe on rights than preserve them. We as a people have continued to re-elect these traitors and have done very little to curtail anything. Sure we all whine and complain and talk a big game, but none of that changes elections. The failure is from the citizenry before anything else.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Every time I hear that "We failed" it makes me angry because it's bullshit. I did not fail at anything! I vote for the most conservative choice I'm given, and I don't blow it with third party vote wasters. I learned proper American history in school, I understand the constitution, I've taken the oath to defend it--three times! It's the other Useful Idiots that vote for the swamp dwellers, not me.

    Most of us here (certainly not all) probably agree on most (certainly not all) issues, and probably vote similarly in most (certainly not all) elections. We are thwarted by two things. First both parties suck, it's just that one sucks by design and much worse than the other one, but we rarely get good choices to vote for. Case in Point, in the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, Ted Cruz was the only guy on either side that went to Iowa, and told them, honestly, that he was going to work against ethanol and the corn subsidies. Not only is ethanol less green (has a worse carbon footprint) than 100% gasoline, it's worse on our engines, and drives world food prices up, meaningfully! One guy out of that whole crew told the truth, and how long did he last?

    The second problem is half the electorate can't find their ass with a map, a compass, and a search warrant, and believes everything the alphabet media tells them. And they can't reason worth a damn. They're the reason we always get choices from somewhat bad to outrageously bad in most elections. And they consistently vote for outrageously bad.

    There is no "collective electorate", all voters are individuals. And half of us don't get the "government we deserve", we get crappy government foisted upon us. But it feels like that might be about to change. That well-known proverbial tree sounds like it might actually get watered soon.

    I hear you, Shadowline, and I don't want to quibble, but "we as a people" don't really exist, and "we as a people" don't vote candidates into office. We as individuals vote, and we sensible ones are getting it good and hard at most elections from the Useful Idiots.
    Last edited by JCinPA; September 23rd, 2020 at 12:37 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    Quote Originally Posted by JCinPA View Post
    Every time I hear that "We failed" it makes me angry because it's bullshit. I did not fail at anything! I vote for the most conservative choice I'm given, and I don't blow it with third party vote wasters. I learned proper American history in school, I understand the constitution, I've taken the oath to defend it--three times! It's the other Useful Idiots that vote for the swamp dwellers, not me.

    Most of us here (certainly not all) probably agree on most (certainly not all) issues, and probably vote similarly in most (certainly not all) elections. We are thwarted by two things. First both parties suck, it's just that one sucks by design and much worse than the other one, but we rarely get good choices to vote for. Case in Point, in the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, Ted Cruz was the only guy on either side that went to Iowa, and told them, honestly, that he was going to work against ethanol and the corn subsidies. Not only is ethanol less green (has a worse carbon footprint) than 100% gasoline, it's worse on our engines, and drives world food prices up, meaningfully! One guy out of that whole crew told the truth, and how long did he last?

    The second problem is half the electorate can't find their ass with a map, a compass, and a search warrant, and believes everything the alphabet media tells them. And they can't reason worth a damn. They're the reason we always get choices from somewhat bad to outrageously bad in most elections. And they consistently vote for outrageously bad.

    There is no "collective electorate", all voters are individuals. And half of us don't get the "government we deserve", we get crappy government foisted upon us. But is feels like that might be about to change. That well-known proverbial tree sounds like it might actually get watered soon.

    I hear you, Shadowline, and I don't want to quibble, but "we as a people" don't really exist, and "we as a people" don't vote candidates into office. We as individuals vote, and we sensible ones are getting it good and hard at most elections from the Useful Idiots.
    As long as the USA stays a (mostly) 2 party system, I don't expect any of this to change.
    -Brandon


  9. #29
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    The Constitution is like a 1911 - not perfect - but built to last generations and still get the job done. Both have their own toolbox built right into them to make changes and replace things that may not be working right. At times, patience and time is needed to get both to run correctly - but once you do, it can be a most beautiful thing.

  10. #30
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    Apr 2007
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    Bucks Cty, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: The Constitution has failed

    It's a Republic, if YOU can keep it. The test is coming.
    Its easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled....Mark Twain

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