Kali-Key for Rifle Hunting

[raxar]

There is no distinct law, that is the whole point. Over the years I have seen people get fined and lose there license over the dumbest shit. Why chance it? If you want to do it , go ahead. Just be aware of the complications. Can you even imagine getting in an accident and standing in court trying to explain your position?

I was unaware that you can't accidentally shoot someone with a bolt action.

If this is your attitude how is it even worth going into the woods at all, why chance it?

[streaker69]

There is no distinct law, that is the whole point. Over the years I have seen people get fined and lose there license over the dumbest shit. Why chance it? If you want to do it , go ahead. Just be aware of the complications. Can you even imagine getting in an accident and standing in court trying to explain your position?

If bunny cops are enforcing laws that don't exist, then they should probably be looking for another line of work.

[cdi]

There is no distinct law, that is the whole point. Over the years I have seen people get fined and lose there license over the dumbest shit. Why chance it? If you want to do it , go ahead. Just be aware of the complications. Can you even imagine getting in an accident and standing in court trying to explain your position?

Ah, more wisdom from the gunfluffer.
There most certainly is a very distinct law. It's been around since 1907, as a matter of fact.
I wasn't going to take the mystery out of it but now I feel I must.

As indistinct as it is: Title 58 The Game and Wildlife Code, Section 2308 (a) (2).
The cogent part would be- all a yalls can't be all up in dare wit semi-auto rifles.
The issue is, it says just that and no mention of deactivating semi-auto rifles.

So by the letter of the law, you might just turn the gas to off on your fal and presto, it's no longer semi-auto.
I wouldn't do that, but removing the gas tube or the "kali key" should be fine in court. If you get a fair minded trier of fact, which is certainly a matter of doubt.

I have a letter before me from Thomas Grohol, Director Bureau of Wildlife Protection. Dated 6 October 2014. It says in part that regardless of what the law actually says, the Game Commission's stance is that firearm needs to be "permanently altered" to a manually operated firearm to be legal for hunting.

I notice that the Game Commission's stance is entirely without support in terms of what I found from my FOIA request. The Game Commission is adding to the statute- they can't do that- they're not the legislature.
Oh, btw, it's lose THEIR license, not lose "there" license. Example: "Must be something in the water up THERE, in Jim Thorpe".

ETA: No amount of poking and prodding on my part was able to get an answer from the fudds in Harrisburg on what "permanently deactivated" means. It's something THEIR legal department doesn't want to discuss. Obviously, because it's unenforceable. It's a holdover from when the fudds held sway over what was good and wholesome in the deer woods- like drinking alcohol while hunting and shooting at sound.

[Steeltrap]

...So by the letter of the law, you might just turn the gas to off on your fal and presto, it's no longer semi-auto.
I wouldn't do that, but removing the gas tube or the "kali key" should be fine in court. If you get a fair minded trier of fact, which is certainly a matter of doubt....

So, we have some common sense input along with some documentation of written backup along with conversations from the PGC on their "stance" on the matter.

As I stated before, your firearm may be confiscated and sent to the PSP for "analysis" of is your rifle permanently converted to a non-semiauto? The PGC is going to take the position that Warden's are NOT firearm experts and in order to determine if your firearm is no longer a semi-auto....and expert from the PSP is required to make this determination.

So....now you wonder......how long will your firearm be kept for "analysis" by a government agency? My bet is a minimum of a year.

Anyone is certainly welcome to "test" this issue should they carry such a firearm AND be stopped by a Warden. But loss of the use, along with perhaps more legal fees than a new Kimber rifle cost may very well be the price.

Anyone can support via post the position that "this should be\is allowed" but when the time comes to buck up and pay the fees.....who want's to do that? Especially when a person can buy a used Savage bolt action for under $300 and go hunting and enjoy the day.

MHO

[streaker69]

So, we have some common sense input along with some documentation of written backup along with conversations from the PGC on their "stance" on the matter.

As I stated before, your firearm may be confiscated and sent to the PSP for "analysis" of is your rifle permanently converted to a non-semiauto? The PGC is going to take the position that Warden's are NOT firearm experts and in order to determine if your firearm is no longer a semi-auto....and expert from the PSP is required to make this determination.

So....now you wonder......how long will your firearm be kept for "analysis" by a government agency? My bet is a minimum of a year.

Anyone is certainly welcome to "test" this issue should they carry such a firearm AND be stopped by a Warden. But loss of the use, along with perhaps more legal fees than a new Kimber rifle cost may very well be the price.

Anyone can support via post the position that "this should be\is allowed" but when the time comes to buck up and pay the fees.....who want's to do that? Especially when a person can buy a used Savage bolt action for under $300 and go hunting and enjoy the day.

MHO

Shouldn't we expect the government agents that are actually sworn to enforce the law, understand and actually obey the law, and not try to interpret it? The PGC's stance has no basis in the law how it's written. You as a hunter have no right to hunt based upon your interpretation of the law, therefore, the government should have no right to enforce a policy based upon their interpretation of the law. Everyone should be fighting to ensure that the government follows the laws the same way we're required to instead of just rolling over.

[Mr_Gixxer]

The fudd is strong in this thread.

Be afraid!!! Be very afraid!!! Don't even leave your home, you could be arrested!!!!!

[RockIsland]

The fudd is strong in this thread.

Be afraid!!! Be very afraid!!! Don't even leave your home, you could be arrested!!!!!

Or catch the Wutang Flu.

[cdi]

So, we have some common sense input along with some documentation of written backup along with conversations from the PGC on their "stance" on the matter.

As I stated before, your firearm may be confiscated and sent to the PSP for "analysis" of is your rifle permanently converted to a non-semiauto? The PGC is going to take the position that Warden's are NOT firearm experts and in order to determine if your firearm is no longer a semi-auto....and expert from the PSP is required to make this determination.

So....now you wonder......how long will your firearm be kept for "analysis" by a government agency? My bet is a minimum of a year.

Anyone is certainly welcome to "test" this issue should they carry such a firearm AND be stopped by a Warden. But loss of the use, along with perhaps more legal fees than a new Kimber rifle cost may very well be the price.

Anyone can support via post the position that "this should be\is allowed" but when the time comes to buck up and pay the fees.....who want's to do that? Especially when a person can buy a used Savage bolt action for under $300 and go hunting and enjoy the day.

MHO

Right.
I have a closet full of fal and ar rifles. IO don't mind losing one for however long it takes to have their "expert" render an opinion. Maybe they'll call in gunfluffer as the expert.
MY position is, I have to spend all day in the woods looking at it so I wish it to be something I like or something I used during the war as I'm most proficient with it.
I know the fudds don't like seeing scary guns in the woods. Phuk them. Don't care what what they think.

I requested a bunny cop meet me and cite me and impound my shit so I would have standing and be able to get this matter before a judge. I was roundly refused.

[Yoder]

I'm going to print out info on the Kali key and keep it in my wallet in case I get stopped.

[streaker69]

Right.
I have a closet full of fal and ar rifles. IO don't mind losing one for however long it takes to have their "expert" render an opinion. Maybe they'll call in gunfluffer as the expert.
MY position is, I have to spend all day in the woods looking at it so I wish it to be something I like or something I used during the war as I'm most proficient with it.
I know the fudds don't like seeing scary guns in the woods. Phuk them. Don't care what what they think.

I requested a bunny cop meet me and cite me and impound my shit so I would have standing and be able to get this matter before a judge. I was roundly refused.

See, you could sell one of those FAL's and get a dozen fudd guns, then you wouldn't need to risk it.