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Thread: 5.56 vs .300blk

  1. #31
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    300 Blackout sounds WAY cooler.

    5.56 needs a marketing name - like 556 NiteSlayer

    Yeah... that's badass. Especially with "night" spelled all rebellious and shit. So cool.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    5.56 Kyle.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    5.56 Kyle.
    Nice!

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  4. #34
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    I am a big fan of the 300BO especially when using subsonic and suppressor. I have a 300BO bolt action and an AR15 as well. I hunt with my 300BO bolt action for the past four hunting seasons. If you are going to use subsonic ammo, you better choose a bullet that will expand with subsonic velocities.

    I personally load Lehigh Defense 194gr ME and I also have 178gr CF bullets.

    Maker, Outlaw State, and Hornady also offer bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities.

    I would not feel undergunned with a 300BO as the 194gr ME and I would not hesitate to use it for SD. I'd try the Hornady, but those bullets are tough to find in stock these days. The 194gr ME bullets will ruin your day and same goes for the CF bullets.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    The 300 blackout is a great cartridge. The only real advantage that the 5.56 has is it's higher muzzle velocity (even though it is ballistically INFERIOR to the 300 BLK). This higher MV results in a longer point blank range. This is a huge advantage especially for an infantry soldier who is not a sniper and does not understand external ballistics. For a general military cartridge, it is a better choice for this reason.

    Other than that, I believe that most advantages go to the 300 BLK.
    Comparing a typical 300 BLK round (125 gr. bullet, .307 G1 BC, 2200 fps MV) to a 5.56 round (55 gr. bullet, 0.243 G1 BC, 3000 fps MV w/ 16" barrel):


    ..........................5.56..........300 BLK..........5.56.............300 BL
    ........................300 yds....... 300 yds........500 yds.........500 yds
    vel (FPS).............1931............1491............ 1383.............1158
    Energy (ft.-lb.).....458..............617..............234.... ...........373
    drop (in.).............11.5............24.9............ ..61.7............113.7
    drop (mil).............1.1..............2.3............ ...3.4................6.3

    At 300 yards a solder can hold a little high and still get a solid center mass hit on a torso. A lot tougher w/ the 300 BLK as the drop is 24.9" instead of 11.5". I don't have this 'column' in the above table, but the 300 BLK would drop 11.5" at 235 yards, so another way to look at this is that the point blank range is 235 yards for the 300 BLK instead of 300 yards for the 5.56. Energy wise, at 300 yards the 300 BLK is hitting 35% harder (617 ft-lbs vs. 458). At 500 yards, even for the 5.56, a solder better know how to range & adjust the sights. Yes the 300 BLK drops more, but whats the big deal to crank the sights up 6.3 mil instead of 3.4?

    All rifles will be much quieter with a suppressor. If you want super quiet, then you must stay subsonic (which the 5.56 cannot realistically do). However, a 300 BLK loaded with a 250 grain bullet and a 1100 fps muzzle velocity still has 671 ft.-lbs. of energy! This bullet has a great BC of .878. At 300 yards, the bullet drops 88.1" (8.2 mils), has a remaining velocity of 1009 fps (567 ft.-lbs.). It would be like getting hit by a .357 magnum! All while being hollywood quiet and at 300 yards!!! Yes, that's a lot of drop, but nothing more than what you have to deal with when shooting a .308 at 600 yards!

    The bottom line is that If you reload and understand external ballistics the 300 BLK is a great cartridge, especially if you want to shot suppressed. Also a good choice if you shoot short range and want a short barrel/suppressed. If you do not reload, not only will things get expensive, but you will be shooting loads that probably are not optimized for the shooting that you want to do.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Swap out those 55gr for what people ACTUALLY use for distance in a 223. Like... a 69gr or 75gr BTHP. See what happens to those numbers. But I like how you used the neutered 55gr to promote your narrative. Fact is, using REAL 223 ammo that ANYONE would actually use for distance, the 300 has NO CHANCE!

    Do the numbers again like I said. You*ll see.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    Swap out those 55gr for what people ACTUALLY use for distance in a 223. Like... a 69gr or 75gr BTHP. See what happens to those numbers. But I like how you used the neutered 55gr to promote your narrative. Fact is, using REAL 223 ammo that ANYONE would actually use for distance, the 300 has NO CHANCE!

    Do the numbers again like I said. You*ll see.
    The 55 grain was the right comparison. Most compare the 300 BLK to a short barreled rifle such as an m4. I don't know of many that shoot 75 gr. out of those. "Using REAL ammo that ANYONE would actually us for distance" would also mean that they would probably use be using a precision long range rifle.

    Yes, the 75 grain .223 bullet has a higher BC than the 125 gr. .308 bullet that I used in the comparison. I shoot a 75 grain (which is a great bullet) out of my 5.56 at 600 yard F-class regularly. My AR for that has a 22" heavy barrel because at range even the mighty 75 starts giving up a lot of ballistic performance when the velocity drops off. Even then, a lowly 308 significantly outperforms the 5.56 at that range.

    "do the numbers again" - sure, just at 500 yards. Even with fairly hot loads using slow powder, the muzzle velocity out of my 22" barrel is 2800 (chrono data confirmed by drop at range, not a guess). I do not have data for this load out of a 16" barrel, but 2500 fps would be a good guess. Also used a .G1 BC of 0.395 (Hornady Match 75 BTHP). At 500 yards, the remaining velocity is 1536 fps, energy is 393 ft.-lb. and drop is 71.4". Slightly more energy than the 300 BLK and slightly more drop than the 55 gr. 5.56. What does this mean? Don't really know - I just think that it is the wrong cartridge for the application.

    Again, the 300 BLK has advantages in a suppressed compact weapon particularly in short to intermediate ranges. At longer ranges it will take someone with significant skill to make hits with either the 5.56 or 300 BLK.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Put together a 556 ar years ago for the sole purpose as a suppressor host. This rifle has a 24* barrel. Suppressor is a awc hrt model. Yes this is a older design that*s no longer available new. Never ran subs through this set up, sorta why bother. This set up is very comfortable using without hearing protection. Full disclosure I haven*t tried it indoors, I would give it a try without any hesitation. Muzzle blast is all but gone and the crack is noticeable but not offensive. I find that the reflection of noise from objects perpendicular to the bullet path is more noticeable than it is without the suppressor. Seems to me if your goal is hearing protection use a suppressor whether or not your using subs. If stealth is your goal a suppressor is a must. But then again a rifle caliber may not be your best choice. Depending on the job at hand caliber may have to change to accomplish the task at hand. Short and long of it, noise is noise. Minimizing it can only benefit you in the long run. I know I didn*t address the power factor of the calibers in question. To me it*s a bit of a no brainer. Subs won*t work as well as full loads no matter the caliber. Bullet design can help. Circumstances at hand dictate the round and load you should use. Frankly I wouldn*t want to be hit by any of them.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Quote Originally Posted by red dog View Post
    Put together a 556 ar years ago for the sole purpose as a suppressor host. This rifle has a 24* barrel. Suppressor is a awc hrt model. Yes this is a older design that*s no longer available new. Never ran subs through this set up, sorta why bother. This set up is very comfortable using without hearing protection. Full disclosure I haven*t tried it indoors, I would give it a try without any hesitation. Muzzle blast is all but gone and the crack is noticeable but not offensive. I find that the reflection of noise from objects perpendicular to the bullet path is more noticeable than it is without the suppressor. Seems to me if your goal is hearing protection use a suppressor whether or not your using subs. If stealth is your goal a suppressor is a must. But then again a rifle caliber may not be your best choice. Depending on the job at hand caliber may have to change to accomplish the task at hand. Short and long of it, noise is noise. Minimizing it can only benefit you in the long run. I know I didn*t address the power factor of the calibers in question. To me it*s a bit of a no brainer. Subs won*t work as well as full loads no matter the caliber. Bullet design can help. Circumstances at hand dictate the round and load you should use. Frankly I wouldn*t want to be hit by any of them.
    You have made some great points. Suppressors address the muzzle blast on high power rifles while at the same time acting like muzzle breaks. A suppressor on a 300 WinMag results in 308 recoil level & rimfire noise. A muzzle break has the opposite effect on noise - it increases it. In addition, it directs the noise back at the shooter and even more so towards the spotter or those beside the shooter. I'm at a point where I am trying to save my hearing best I can and when shooting rifle use double ears and am getting a suppressor so I can shoot w/ single ears.

    Shooting 300 BLK subs is as challenging at 300 yards as a 308 at 600 yards and at 500 yards like shooting a 308 at 1000 yards. Actually one thing that will be more challenging is dialing in on the range. At 300 yards the subsonic 300 BLK round is dropping 0.75" per yard. At 500 yards it is dropping 1.5" per yard. You really are dropping mortars. Miss the range estimation by 10 yards and send the bullet in front or behind the target (small target). Although counter-intuitive, how much the subsonic bullet gets pushed around by wind is much less than the 308 bullet at extended ranges. This is good, because reading wind is far more difficult (and uncertain) than predicting range.
    Last edited by MMH; November 2nd, 2020 at 11:01 AM.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: 5.56 vs .300blk

    Who is shooting 300 BLK subs at longer than 50 yards and why? Makes no sense.

    300 BLK and subsonic is often talked about and it's an option and interesting to play with but personally if I am going to be doing target shooting, hunting or self defense, it's going to be some variation of a supersonic bullet.

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