Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Somewhere around Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Does anyone know, preferably with a citation, how expired LTCFs are being handled during this covid nonsense? For instance, let's say your LTCF expired in May, and your appointment for renewal (which is the required process in my county currently) is not until January, that would put the license holder outside of the six month grace period. Has there been an official declaration about an extended grace period on this like with some other things that we're forced to renew?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    E-Fray-Tuh, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Overscore View Post
    Does anyone know, preferably with a citation, how expired LTCFs are being handled during this covid nonsense? For instance, let's say your LTCF expired in May, and your appointment for renewal (which is the required process in my county currently) is not until January, that would put the license holder outside of the six month grace period. Has there been an official declaration about an extended grace period on this like with some other things that we're forced to renew?
    There's been a lot of discussion about this "grace period". I would confirm the implications with a gun lawyer.

    https://www.delcopa.gov/sheriff/firearmslicenses.html

    Wolf Administration Grants Third Extension to License to Carry Firearm Permits

    Harrisburg, PA * The Pennsylvania State Police announced today that Governor Tom Wolf has granted an additional extension to license to carry firearms permits. Permits expiring on March 19, 2020, or later are now valid through September 30, 2020. The previous extension was set to expire on July 31st.

    The extension of license to carry permit expiration dates is necessary due to the closure of some county courthouses and sheriff's offices, as well as other ongoing COVID-19 mitigation efforts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    We're not there yet, but I definitely see this as coming to a legal challenge at some point. I believe the extensions will soon come to an end, and telling folks that "their turn" to pay to legally exercise a "right" is 6 months down the road will not sit well.

    This is another example of a situation where it would be very beneficial for residents to be able to apply to ANY county, just as non-residents can do. Since apparently a governor can now do whatever they want by mandate, maybe we should ask for an executive order directing this, to help with the current excessive backlog.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Somewhere around Phoenixville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    With the extension that Wolf whimsically decreed, an argument can be made that the six month grace period begins on October 1st, since a license that currently has a printed expiration date of March 19th or after now doesn't expire until 9/30. (Thanks for that info.) But, who wants to play that game? Not me.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    I could see this playing out on a county-by-county basis. Explaining to an arresting officer that your expired LTCF is valid because of the governors decree could be met with *but my Sheriff didn*t agree to that.*
    "Cause remember: no matter where you go.....there you are" ---Buckaroo Banzai

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    PRNY
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    This is another example of a situation where it would be very beneficial for residents to be able to apply to ANY county, just as non-residents can do. Since apparently a governor can now do whatever they want by mandate, maybe we should ask for an executive order directing this, to help with the current excessive backlog.
    Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but note that's a double-edged sword. Consider the unlawful refusal to accept LTCF applications that many counties now practice with nonresidents. This unlawful behavior will continue indefinitely so long as the option to go to another county exists - it's just cheaper and easier to go to another county - even if the county is halfway across the state - than it is to (attempt to) use the courts to force sheriffs to follow the law.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Glockin, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    A golden opportunity to go to permitless carry.... could a lawsuit facilitate the legislative process for that?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but note that's a double-edged sword. Consider the unlawful refusal to accept LTCF applications that many counties now practice with nonresidents. This unlawful behavior will continue indefinitely so long as the option to go to another county exists - it's just cheaper and easier to go to another county - even if the county is halfway across the state - than it is to (attempt to) use the courts to force sheriffs to follow the law.
    I think that could be resolved for a couple thousand dollars, though I bet you it would take a couple of tries to actually get into a court room, as compliance often comes about when the alternative begins to become a reality, rather than a hypothetical threat.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    I think that could be resolved for a couple thousand dollars, though I bet you it would take a couple of tries to actually get into a court room, as compliance often comes about when the alternative begins to become a reality, rather than a hypothetical threat.
    Your assessment could not be more spot-on!!

    Susquehanna county was playing that game with me - refused to accept my LTCF renewal application, but I didn't walk in unprepared. I had already engaged GunLawyer and we prepared what I would say and how I would say it.

    Two weeks after meeting with the Sheriff, he changed his policy so that he would accept nonresident applications, but only from people in my county. In other words, he relented just enough to remove my standing. I wish he hadn't - I had the money set aside and was willing to see it through. I've had a standing offer to fund someone with standing for something like 4 years now, but not a single taker. Which gets back to my earlier point: if there is an easier solution, people will be very unlikely to challenge unlawful actions on the part of the Sheriff.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    20052528

    Default Re: LTCF expiration and long wait for appointment

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    he changed his policy so that he would accept nonresident applications, but only from people in my county.
    Color me intrigued - what do you mean by he is accepting nonresident application from people in your county? If they're county residents, they'd be residents, not nonresidents.
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

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