Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripsafety View Post
    It looks like it has a mildot reticle and MOA turrets. I don't like that, but it is manageable. Also, the reticle is on the second focal plane, which means it's only correct at one (usually the highest) magnification setting (first focal plane scopes are more expensive and have their own set of "problems").

    Yes, you can range with it. You have to know the size of the target or something near it. Basically, one mil is 3.6" at 100 yds, 7.2" at 200 yds etc. One MOA is 1" at 100 yds, 2" at 200 yds. etc. You have to do this at the right magnification or use a conversion factor for the magnification you're at. The turrets on this scope have .5 MOA clicks, so at 100 yds, one click will move your impact point 1/2" (.14 mils).

    You can either dial in for the range and windage or do a holdover. Holdover is good for small on-the fly corrections, At longer ranges the holdover will be be more than you can see in the reticle. The same thing about magnification setting applies.

    I suggest a program like Ballistic AE for your phone. It can be set to do the necessary calculation and give you the MOA dial in. It is also unbelievably accurate. I also have a Mildot Master in a pocket on my stock. It also gives you what you need for a MOA dial in. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNxpVBq0kng You can also just do the calculations and make a card with the right drop data for your rifle and load. I also have one of these in my stock pocket.

    At 1000 yds, you will be able to clearly see targets, but you're not going to see holes in paper. The power range is right, as most long range guys shoot 1000 yds at 10x - 12x. More than that makes you crazy. This is a good quality scope. I'm sure you know that you need a good quality mounting arrangement installed properly. For 1000 yds, I would use a 20 MOA base.
    This is the kind of help I knew I could get around here and was looking for, thanks!
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  2. #12
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    Jun 2009
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    Apollo, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    If it is mil reticle and moa turret, send it back to Leopold and get the M5 mill turrets installed. Much easier math to deal with.
    HGW, llc ~ Title 1 & NFA sales/manufacturing ~ Transfers - Title 1 $20 - NFA $50

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrborecrazy View Post
    Don*t tell us your gonna put it on a BB gun? You should be good on any kind of a decent caliber out to as far as you want to shoot. I believe the MK4 is mils, new math for ya.
    Perfect fit for a Ruger 10-22 ?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Based on the descriptions in the book it does have MOA Turrets but it also sounds like that could have gone either way, seeing as they describe the obvious differences between them. If getting it switched over is better and not too costly I would have them changed, I'll look into it, thanks.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Walleye I just want to know where you plan to shoot at 1000!

    Mil dots are fine but you may also want to get an ACSS reticle ... Less math. Primary arms has great 4-14s for 5.56 and 308

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    Walleye I just want to know where you plan to shoot at 1000!

    Mil dots are fine but you may also want to get an ACSS reticle ... Less math. Primary arms has great 4-14s for 5.56 and 308
    I'm thinking of scheduling some schooling out at Thunder Valley, OH and if I do that I'd like to half know what I'm doing at least. University range in Exeter has 600 yd steel in the woods.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Eastern PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    I'm thinking of scheduling some schooling out at Thunder Valley, OH and if I do that I'd like to half know what I'm doing at least. University range in Exeter has 600 yd steel in the woods.
    It would be best to have your turrets match the reticle...Mil/Mil rather than Mil/Moa

    I prefer the Mil/Mil set up and have all of my scopes both the SFP and FFP in that set up. FFP scopes allow you to range your targets at any magnification. SFP scopes usually allow you to range your target at only full magnification. I only shoot long distance with a FFP scope and rarely do I use magnification above 10x. Once you start using the higher magnification range in a scope, you will notice your heart beat affect the reticle view. You will also loose the ability to get on target quicker with a higher magnification due to the reduced field of view. As you increase magnification, the field of view reduces, which could limit your ability to follow up with a second shot, if you get off target.

    The mil/mil reticle, from my experience, gives me the inherent ability to memorize the dope for my rifle set up using the single best round for that rifle. You will need to try different rounds to find the one your rifle prefers...sweet spot. Once you have found that round, make sure to tailor that round to your rifle with adjustments to your dope...

    https://www.range365.com/story/shoot...ecision-rifle/


    Regarding the cross hairs...If you set up your rifle to 100yd zero, your cross hairs will be your zero point. Go out to 200 yds, your crosshairs will need to be elevated, depending on caliber and weight of bullet, higher up on the target, in order to factor in the drop for the bullet at that range. The further you go out, the drop will increase and can be calculated based on either MOA or MIL using a ballistic calculator. There are several calculators one can use...I like the JBM ballistics.

    https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

    With the calculator above, there is a lot of info which needs to be entered. The app has a lot of help that makes figuring out what you need to enter easier.

    You could always buy one of these...pricey, but worth the money if you decide to make this a serious commitment.

    https://kestrelmeters.com/collection...rel-ballistics

    I would suggest reviewing the many videos on line which can give you a very good understanding of how a scope works, coupled with dope, and bullet drop. Once you learn the basics, you can use your reticle to compensate for bullet drop without having to dial in the mils. If you know the amount of mils to dial in, you can simply use the ranging hash marks in the reticle to put you on target a lot quicker.

    I don't know if New Holland is worth the drive, but the range goes out to 700yds and we have steel all along the left side from 200yds out to 700yds. The club is members only, but I am sure someone here would be glad to take you out as a guest.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Need Help Understanding This Scope

    Your welcome...

    Dope...each rifle is a bit different. Even rifles made by the same manufacturer of the same caliber when it comes to a specific brand of ammo or the weight of the bullet shot through the barrel. Once you dial in your scope, try several brands of ammo and also bullet weight. Once you find that one round which your barrel has a sweet spot for, make sure to find someone with a chronograph and get the FPS of that round at varying distances. Take this info and plug it into a ballistic calculator and that will give you a pretty good dope card. Take this info and apply it to your rifle with the new scope and see how on target the varying distances are to your rifle. If you find the mils to be spot on for each distance, do nothing. If you find that as you go out further, you need to tweak the mil you are dialing in, up or down to get a respectable, repetitive on target grouping, make the change. Its always a good idea to have a data book to enter this info, so you can refer back to it, with the changes you made and also the different ranges you might have shot at, and the varying data points you entered for those sites and days. Sounds like a lot, but it takes minutes to learn it and the pay back is ongoing.

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