Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Just curious, never happened to me. If you guys who require a FFL transfer, and the buyer fails PICS, do you have to pay for the transfer, then pay another transfer fee plus have a PICS check to get your own rifle back? Has anyone had this happen to you?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenMilePete View Post
    Well........ a lot of folks are overly cautious. If the law doesn't require it, why should you require it? I ask for drivers license and bill of sale that I found on here, I think, where the buyer states that he is not a prohibited person. Also ask if LTCF, and copy that. If someone is going to come after you for doing that, and the person is prohibited, you were probably being targeted anyway. I wouldn't buy a rifle if someone wanted a FFL transfer, so why would I ask someone else to do it?
    The law doesn't prevent you from being sued.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenMilePete View Post
    Just curious, never happened to me. If you guys who require a FFL transfer, and the buyer fails PICS, do you have to pay for the transfer, then pay another transfer fee plus have a PICS check to get your own rifle back? Has anyone had this happen to you?
    THAT is a good question- If the FFL is doing it correctly, "No" the seller should not have to go through PICs to get the gun back because it should not have been given to the FFL in the first place.

    B. *Denied* or *Cancelled* Transaction
    If the FFL receives a *denied* or *cancelled* response from NICS, the firearm
    cannot be transferred to the prospective buyer. If the private party seller has not
    relinquished possession, he or she may leave the business premises with the
    firearm. The FFL does not enter the firearm as an acquisition in the FFL*s A&D
    record.
    link to ATF Procedure document: https://www.atf.gov/file/1661/download
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    THAT is a good question- If the FFL is doing it correctly, "No" the seller should not have to go through PICs to get the gun back because it should not have been given to the FFL in the first place.



    link to ATF Procedure document: https://www.atf.gov/file/1661/download
    I think Kings Shooters require a background check for the seller to get his gun back. Not positive though.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by buxbandit View Post
    I get it now. We have the freedom to exchange and sell long guns, but for some of you that's just a little too much freedom to handle.
    Squashed by fear
    I'm not sure why I should put myself at risk for the benefit of some guy just because I have a gun he'd like to buy, so that he gets an untraceable gun and I'm left holding the bag when the music stops.

    That's more of a Marxist thing, than a "freedom" thing. Transference of the burden from one group to another.


    Quote Originally Posted by McSull View Post
    The law doesn't prevent you from being sued.
    It kind of does, since you have an absolute defense that would make any civil suit die in the preliminary stages. What lawyer would take that case on a contingency?

    (d) Defense.--Compliance with the provisions of this section shall be a defense to any criminal complaint under the laws of this Commonwealth or other claim or cause of action under this chapter arising from the sale or transfer of any firearm.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenMilePete View Post
    Well........ a lot of folks are overly cautious. If the law doesn't require it, why should you require it? I ask for drivers license and bill of sale that I found on here, I think, where the buyer states that he is not a prohibited person. Also ask if LTCF, and copy that. If someone is going to come after you for doing that, and the person is prohibited, you were probably being targeted anyway. I wouldn't buy a rifle if someone wanted a FFL transfer, so why would I ask someone else to do it?
    Because of freedom. Part of true freedom is not thinking the same as everyone else and doing what you think you should do. People have the freedom to set the condition of selling a long gun that they want. Freedom is you having the right to say no way will I submit to a transfer and moving on. People have the freedom to decide what policies they want to follow based on their thought process.

    It*s similar to setting a selling price for a gun. Sellers have the freedom to sell a gun for the price they want to even if prospective customers Look at that price and think (*what are they crazy, how can they be asking that, it should be lower, I would never ask that price, so why should they?"). The seller has the freedom to set the price they want even if others don*t like the price. The potential buyer has the freedom to move on or agree to the sellers price.

    It*s like everything else in life, true freedom is when I am doing things the way I think i should, not when I am bending to the expectations of others against my comfort and others are dictating to me how I should do things whether it*s the government or other people.

    It applies to many areas of life. The law does not require that I have a fire extinguisher in my house. A lot of people do including myself because it is what I want and helps my comfort level. Others do not have a fire extinguisher in their house for a variety of reasons. I put expecting everyone to not require a ffl transfer because you don*t to be similar to not thinking anyone should have fire extinguishers in their house. Thinking *I don*t have a fire extinguisher in my house, so why should someone else).
    Last edited by internet troll; August 2nd, 2020 at 02:40 PM.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by McSull View Post
    I think Kings Shooters require a background check for the seller to get his gun back. Not positive though.
    and a lot of FFL's probably still record lowers as pistol or rifle. It's complicated & overwhelming so I have some sympathy, but I just showed you in black and white from the ATF how private transfers are to be done. I may buy King's bullets but I wouldn't get a private transfer done there if they want to charge a seller to get his/her gun back
    "It seems that the Constitution is more or less guidelines than actual rules"
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I'm not sure why I should put myself at risk for the benefit of some guy just because I have a gun he'd like to buy, so that he gets an untraceable gun and I'm left holding the bag when the music stops.

    That's more of a Marxist thing, than a "freedom" thing. Transference of the burden from one group to another.

    It kind of does, since you have an absolute defense that would make any civil suit die in the preliminary stages. What lawyer would take that case on a contingency?

    (d) Defense.--Compliance with the provisions of this section shall be a defense to any criminal complaint under the laws of this Commonwealth or other claim or cause of action under this chapter arising from the sale or transfer of any firearm.
    Great post. Now lets go another step further...

    You private sale a long gun which is now un-traceable past you and is flipped to a prohibited person and used against a law enforcement officer. Who will hang for that murder? PA Trooper Joshua Miller was killed in the line of duty as a result of a straw purchase. This is why I avoid doing FTF deals unless I really know the person. Too much to risk so someone can have an untraceable firearm.

    https://www.psp.pa.gov/memorial-wall...-D-Miller.aspx

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Why the new trend of ffl to transfer a rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    and a lot of FFL's probably still record lowers as pistol or rifle. It's complicated & overwhelming so I have some sympathy, but I just showed you in black and white from the ATF how private transfers are to be done. I may buy King's bullets but I wouldn't get a private transfer done there if they want to charge a seller to get his/her gun back
    The reason I asked was because I was told I would have to to pay for the transfer back to myself at two different FFLs when selling a handgun, if the buyer failed PICS. Essentially they transferred the gun to themselves first. So yes, it was incorrect, but if the buyer failed what was I supposed to do? No other choice but to leave, contact the police, and get my own gun back. Oh, wait, then I would be leaving the gun in the possession of the FFL, so I would have to pay the transfer fee. Thanks for the source, but I think you are still screwed, if the FFL does it incorrectly. Those two times were not at a FFL I would have chosen.

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