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Thread: PICS System

  1. #1
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    Default PICS System

    Hello.

    I was notified from my local gun shop that i was undetermined when i went to purchase my first firearm. I am unsure what that exactly means. Can someone explain that to me and possibly provide me with the next step i need to take? Also i was arrested back in 1998 and was placed on ARD. With being placed on ARD it was a non conviction. I have proof of this on my FBI clearances. I get my state and FBI clearances yearly because i am a coach at a local school district. I am just confused on all this.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PICS System

    You need to talk with a lawyer before you attempt any firearms purchase. AFAIK everyone has to plead guilty before being accepted into the ARD program. You need to have a lawyer check what you signed 20 years ago and if the violation is considered a disqualification.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Quote Originally Posted by scott51329 View Post
    Hello.

    I was notified from my local gun shop that i was undetermined when i went to purchase my first firearm. I am unsure what that exactly means. Can someone explain that to me and possibly provide me with the next step i need to take? Also i was arrested back in 1998 and was placed on ARD. With being placed on ARD it was a non conviction. I have proof of this on my FBI clearances. I get my state and FBI clearances yearly because i am a coach at a local school district. I am just confused on all this.
    Like Delkal said, you need to talk to a lawyer that specializes in gun law.
    You should do so without delay since attempting to purchase if actually prohibited can cause legal problems for you.
    Things may be fine, but only a gun lawyer will be able to tell you with certainty one way or the other.

    Send Phil a message and he will tell you your options.
    He is a moderator here and he knows his stuff.

    Attorney Phil Kline
    Email: gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Personal Message: https://forum.pafoa.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=1125

    Best of luck to you.
    Bern-
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PICS System

    That sucks. No worse way to find out you cant buy one than standing at the counter excited to take it home and then finding out youre not allowed.

    Like everyone said, get a lawyer. Im no lawyer, but I know a little bit about ARD. From what I know, you gotta plead guilty as part of the "deal", and once you finish the program you can usually get the case dropped/expunged so your record is clean (or at least clean of that case). If you never did that, then whatever originally got you on ARD is probably still visible on your record.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Shop should also provide a challenge form to get the reason. Also what they said.
    Owner Trigger Time LLc 01 FFL/NFA Saylorsburg, PA. Sales/Service/Transfers/Training
    NRA CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun Merit badge counselor. US Navy Marksmanship Team Staff

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Undetermined means just that, it has not been determined yet if you are going to be approved or denied. PICS has 15 days to do the investigation and process the form. At the end of the process, and it could take less than 15 days, they will tell the FFL either you are approved or denied. If denied, PICS WILL NOT tell the FFL or you why and then the FFL should give you the challenge form for you to fill out and submit. It is likely (probably) that the ARD has something to do with this and PICS may well find out that you have completed it and the charges are now null and void and give you the go ahead. That said, if the ARD was completed and the charges were not taken off your record, they probably will deny you. Then you fill out the challenge form and include any and all documents that you hopefully have that will show you completed ARD successfully and the PSP hopefully will reverse the deny. Including any past clearance approvals paperwork wouldn't hurt either. If the deny is upheld, the PSP WILL tell you why and then you get a good PA firearms lawyer involved to straighten it out.

    I am not a lawyer but am a FFL who has seen/been involved with, in the past, Undetermined/Denied, Undetermined/Approved and Denied actions by PICS.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; July 24th, 2020 at 01:59 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillz View Post
    That sucks. No worse way to find out you cant buy one than standing at the counter excited to take it home and then finding out youre not allowed.

    Like everyone said, get a lawyer. Im no lawyer, but I know a little bit about ARD. From what I know, you gotta plead guilty as part of the "deal", and once you finish the program you can usually get the case dropped/expunged so your record is clean (or at least clean of that case). If you never did that, then whatever originally got you on ARD is probably still visible on your record.


    It was labeled as a misdemeanor offense and it states on my fbi clearances it is a non conviction.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Undetermined means just that, it has not been determined yet if you are going to be approved or denied. PICS has 15 days to do the investigation and process the form. At the end of the process, and it could take less than 15 days, they will tell the FFL either you are approved or denied. If denied, PICS WILL NOT tell the FFL or you why and then the FFL should give you the challenge form for you to fill out and submit. It is likely (probably) that the ARD has something to do with this and PICS may well find out that you have completed it and the charges are now null and void and give you the go ahead. That said, if the ARD was completed and the charges were not taken off your record, they probably will deny you. Then you fill out the challenge form and include any and all documents that you hopefully have that will show you completed ARD successfully and the PSP hopefully will reverse the deny. Including any past clearance approvals paperwork wouldn't hurt either. If the deny is upheld, the PSP WILL tell you why and then you get a good PA firearms lawyer involved to straighten it out.

    I am not a lawyer but am a FFL who has seen/been involved with, in the past, Undetermined/Denied, Undetermined/Approved and Denied actions by PICS.


    It was a misdemeanor and is labeled as a non conviction on my fbi clearances. From your experience would that disqualify someone? I understand that you are not a lawyer just asking from professional advice. I can print the challenge form and mail it in I am just seeing best avenue to go

  9. #9
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Quote Originally Posted by scott51329 View Post
    It was a misdemeanor and is labeled as a non conviction on my fbi clearances. From your experience would that disqualify someone? I understand that you are not a lawyer just asking from professional advice. I can print the challenge form and mail it in I am just seeing best avenue to go


    It came back Undetermined after the 15 days thats why i am asking best steps to take

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PICS System

    Talk to Phil.
    It won't cost you anything to tell him your situation and have him tell you your options.
    Then you will have a better idea where you stand and how to proceed.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

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