Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #81
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by PA86 View Post
    It also doesn't even say they put their apparatus in park.

    Would it be reasonable to assume they kept the truck in neutral?

    Or is it more likely that certain things happened (like they parked their truck, they knocked on the door) and that the facebook post simply didn't contain every possible conceivable detail?
    Considering they're making split second decisions like they posted, I'd have to question if they did park it properly.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    ..., Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by PA86 View Post
    Would she have been wrong if she had killed the firefighters?
    Would the police have been wrong if they had responded first and killed the homeowner?

    Or are such unfortunate outcomes sometimes an unavoidable reality in the world of emergency services?
    Happened a couple years back in VA when FD responded to a diabetic people couldn’t get a hold of. Attempts to knock were not successful, eventually they forced entry. Home owner had not heard them knocking, but did hear is door being busted down.

    Calls like this (and medical alarm activations are just as dangerous) are always high risk.

    Likewise, no one wants to destroy property, which is Likely why they used an unlocked window instead of forcing the door.

    I’ve waited a long time for a key holder, and still been met on the by an old lady with a shotgun. She never heard us knocking, pounding on the door, ringing the bell, the key holder calling, or noticed the fire engine, state police cruiser or the ambulance, but damned well knew when her front door got unlocked at 2 am because her damned medical alarm was tripped.


    Had an old guy that living in a trailer. Totally deaf. Every time his wife went into the hospital her would wear her medical alert.
    And roll over in bed and set it off.

    Walked right by the door as the trooper was pounding it. He never heard it. We figured since he was up and walking he didn’t need us and left.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  4. #84
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by PA86 View Post
    Well having been on many of these calls myself, I can draw upon actual experience of how they typically happen, and I can correlate that knowledge with the facebook post and reasonably infer that certain things very likely happened even if they weren't specifically mentioned in the post.

    You, however, seem consistently hellbent on interpreting events in the worst possible light and without any actual practical experience or knowledge.
    Which is more reasonable, standing outside the open window and yelling and listening for possible cries for help from a woman that is possibly lying injured? Or making that split second decision to jump through the window that probably sound and awful lot like someone breaking in to a woman that's mostly deaf. If she heard them coming through the window, she probably would have heard them yelling from outside the window too. Maybe next time they'll think twice on that split second decision, or maybe next time they'll actually get shot.

    Of course, walking around rapping on windows, probably scared her too. It's really a no win situation. But I did like imminentdanger's question about if they used their PA, or even their siren to try to get her attention. Maybe even using their haligan bar to force the front door would have been better than coming in through a window, since they would have been in far faster, and would have been able to have someone watching out.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Lower Merion, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Considering they're making split second decisions like they posted, I'd have to question if they did park it properly.
    Thank you for completely validating my point about some people simply loving to assume the worst.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Lower Merion, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Which is more reasonable, standing outside the open window and yelling and listening for possible cries for help from a woman that is possibly lying injured? Or making that split second decision to jump through the window that probably sound and awful lot like someone breaking in to a woman that's mostly deaf.
    As has already been explained, I think this narrative you've created of them coming onto the scene and then just going through the window first thing is pretty ludicrous, but as I stated in my first or second post... believe what you want.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    Thanks for your opinion. Many people would disagree with you. One being Streaker as he mentions "officer friendly" and you want officer friendly fired for theft. And so goes the life of an LEO and the profession of policing. It's usually a no win because absolutely everyone, who has never, ever put on a badge and gun belt knows better than those of us who have, the exact way each incident should be handled and how the LEO fucked it up royally.

    Every LEO is exactly like the one that gave you a ticket, yelled at you or otherwise made you so very angry. We all are evil bastards that secretly want to kill you. We hate everyone that isn't a cop which is why nearly all of us will risk life and limb to save you. Why we'll head toward the danger while you're going as fast as you can the other way. Why we'll enter burning buildings to save people because we got there before the fire company.

    None of us that go into law enforcement do it because we think we can help people. We just want the opportunity to kneel on your neck until you're dead. And if we can't do that, we'll take whatever opportunity we can to shoot you, or your dog. We're all bullies filled with blood lust, just waiting for our chance. We all lie, cheat and steal while were waiting for that ultimate prize, the notch on the pistol grip.

    It's fine, it goes with the territory. Everyone knows how to be a professional sports coach, an LEO or a POTUS better than those in the position. Yet, at least with being an LEO, those folks never seem willing to step up and lead from front, just bitch from the back row.
    Personally, I'd like to see the return to officer friendly, and I have really have no problems with those types of situations. The problem comes when they go from officer friendly to total dick in 0 flat. Police have effectively made themselves unapproachable out in public, in my experience. If you try to talk to them, they're not interested. Police attitude comes from the top, if the department has a shitty chief, you're going to have shitty cops.

    Keep in mind, that I spent a good many years working with police departments all over the county here, and I saw the departments change as the chiefs retired and new ones were hired, many times those chiefs were former cops from large cities. They bring the big city idea of policing out to the suburbs and the cops in the department follow suit. Friendliness is gone, it's replaced with suspicion of everyone they encounter. Maybe there's some good ones left, I don't really know because I've decided that I no longer want to have interactions with them after the way I've been treated.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by PA86 View Post
    As has already been explained, I think this narrative you've created of them coming onto the scene and then just going through the window first thing is pretty ludicrous, but as I stated in my first or second post... believe what you want.
    Not the narrative I created, their own words.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    You are probably correct about her being shot if the police were the ones taking incoming rounds.
    So I guess he gets a pass from UJ's rant. Better fly that BLM flag EM, you're just as bad as I am apparently.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    I'm basing it upon what was actually posted in the facebook post. It's there, read it yourself. No point in time does it say the daughter yelled in, doesn't even say they yelled in before entering. They clearly state they made a split second decision to enter, while yelling, and probably not even able to listen for a reply, since there would have been much noise and grunting while trying to get two guys through a window.

    Like I said, they took the time to write something rather detailed post, so if something else happened, why wasn't it written? The question then, is it procedure to make that split second decision and enter the home before they try to establish communication? If that's the procedure then something probably needs to be changed, since two guys almost got killed.

    We'll probably never actually know what really happened. So you can assume something else happened, or you can take their own words for it.
    Yeah, I'll just accept that what was written was a social media post and not a detailed witness statement.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

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