Troopers shoot and kill man in Monroe County

[nashorn]

So, once the police saw he was not "down with a broken hip" why did they try to detain him on his own property for "yelling"? They should have backed-off to de-escalate the situation. Just shows that everybody needs a dog. A distraction, when the cops are busy shooting the dog, get to solid cover. I am all for "Blue Lives Matter", but this seems a little too much. He did not walk down the street pointing a gun at people or walk into the police station. Is it okay to go onto private property and shoot someone whose behavior to your trespassing does not meet your expectations?

They should have left him alone. Someone probably called the Rick Levine/Tom Wolf hotline and reported him for not wearing a mask and social distancing. So the PSP were sent out to bring him in.

[JenniferG]

This is what makes people mad instead of shooting and killing the the obvious mentally challenged patient the Troopers should have shot the man in the arm or the leg or better yet shoot the gun out of his hand. That's the only reasonable response. I listened to what Dopey Joe Biden said and think he's right.

[Carson]

Interestingly, this was on my FB feed today:

It has taken me a little time to write this as it took many of us a few days to fully wrap our heads around, digest, filter, process and learn and I wanted to write more so for the learning process than out of emotion. This excerpt is also not written for pitty or for those of you that know better or would do something different. Save the keyboard warrior battles for something else.

I manage this page for our firehouse and try to include all three shifts but today I am writing strictly through the eyes of one shift. However, as we should be in the world today, we are one at Firehouse 30 and all three shifts were all shaken by this incident....

On 6/25, we nearly lost our engine crew.

Not to a raging three alarm fire or on the highway working an entrapment. It was a typical EMS alarm that we run frequently. Not a fight in progress or a shooting or a violent situation. A simple "well being" check.

Engine 30 was dispatched to check on the caller's mother whom she had not heard from in 4 days. Run of the mill "well being" check. A run that we answer as a department probably once a shift. The Lieutenant is a seasoned member of the department and Firehouse 30 with accolades for service and credit and experience of being in one of the busiest engine companies in the County. The engineer, also seasoned, serving most of her 22 year career at firehouse 30. No doubt one of the best. The left jump, a 4 year firefighter followed by a probationary firefighter with 2 weeks on the job. Enroute to the alarm, protocol was followed. The deputies were notified to respond.

The members found the home and attempted to see anyone inside. Newspaper and mail stacked up. All too quiet. They checked for any unsecured opening. The daughter, who was on scene, reported that "mom" never leaves the house and the members were given full permission to enter the home anyway they could. An unlocked window was found on the backside of the home and the split decision was made to make entry as sometimes it may take a deputy a decent amount of time to respond and arrive on scene. Both firefighters entered the window all the while screaming "Fire department!" as loud as a Probie in fire school. Three steps into the home-they encountered an elderly woman coming at them with a .38 handgun.

The Probie attempted to run to the exterior door but was met with a locked door that would even give a decent truckie a run for his money. He dove into the corner in an attempt to hide as the lady fired off a round. The other firefighter dove back out of the window and into the yard as another round was fired at him. At this time the Lieutenant hailed our radio operator with "shots fired, shots fired-possible firefighter down!" The lieutenant looked back into the window to help the Probie and saw the lady with her gun pointed straight at him as he kneeled in the corner. The lieutenant screamed for the lady to distract her and as she turned she fired another shot at the window. She quickly retreated and the lieutenant realized the distraction and summoned the Probie to the window where he was extricated to safety.

The rest of firehouse 30 and any uniform in the vicinity dumped onto the scene within minutes upon hearing "shots fired" to assist. I'm not sure if there is a description of the emotion I felt when we arrived and all of the members were accounted for without any injuries. Lots of hugs were given. Lots of recollections traded. I always try to count my blessings but that day I counted a lot. Even the way the Probie smiles lol. We were lucky.

The lady was 3/4 deaf and had several break-ins. She was older and only acting in the fear of being alone and self defense. She still used a rotary phone which was unplugged due to extensive solicitation calls. She felt terrible when the story was explained to her. Nothing was done incorrectly as we will always err on the side of the patient and we act under implied consent. Again, we were lucky.

As company officers and firefighters alike, we are trained to make split decisions. Don't let this story change your tactic but instead give you another view. No two calls are alike-including "well being checks". Keep your head on a swivel out there. Love your crew. Train, train, train. Expect the unexpected and have a plan. Be safe out there....

Pics below are window entered and door encountered from the inside....

[Carson]

So, once the police saw he was not "down with a broken hip" why did they try to detain him on his own property for "yelling"? They should have backed-off to de-escalate the situation. Just shows that everybody needs a dog. A distraction, when the cops are busy shooting the dog, get to solid cover. I am all for "Blue Lives Matter", but this seems a little too much. He did not walk down the street pointing a gun at people or walk into the police station. Is it okay to go onto private property and shoot someone whose behavior to your trespassing does not meet your expectations?

Some of your questions can*t be answered because we don*t know all of the particulars. But I doubt that the troopers wanted to shoot the guy. Sometimes you can*t retreat far enough to get to safety.

I realize it is different in the big city. Almost all of my *check on the well being* calls ended in two ways. After entering we found the person dead somewhere in the house or there was nobody home at all. Sometimes we found the person injured and unable to move, but I can*t think of a call where we were attacked.

I guess living alone on a remote patch of land has a different sense of security than living in a row house.

[jakebrake]

Does this mean that we can start looting now?

[streaker69]

Interestingly, this was on my FB feed today:

It has taken me a little time to write this as it took many of us a few days to fully wrap our heads around, digest, filter, process and learn and I wanted to write more so for the learning process than out of emotion. This excerpt is also not written for pitty or for those of you that know better or would do something different. Save the keyboard warrior battles for something else.

I manage this page for our firehouse and try to include all three shifts but today I am writing strictly through the eyes of one shift. However, as we should be in the world today, we are one at Firehouse 30 and all three shifts were all shaken by this incident....

On 6/25, we nearly lost our engine crew.

Not to a raging three alarm fire or on the highway working an entrapment. It was a typical EMS alarm that we run frequently. Not a fight in progress or a shooting or a violent situation. A simple "well being" check.

Engine 30 was dispatched to check on the caller's mother whom she had not heard from in 4 days. Run of the mill "well being" check. A run that we answer as a department probably once a shift. The Lieutenant is a seasoned member of the department and Firehouse 30 with accolades for service and credit and experience of being in one of the busiest engine companies in the County. The engineer, also seasoned, serving most of her 22 year career at firehouse 30. No doubt one of the best. The left jump, a 4 year firefighter followed by a probationary firefighter with 2 weeks on the job. Enroute to the alarm, protocol was followed. The deputies were notified to respond.

The members found the home and attempted to see anyone inside. Newspaper and mail stacked up. All too quiet. They checked for any unsecured opening. The daughter, who was on scene, reported that "mom" never leaves the house and the members were given full permission to enter the home anyway they could. An unlocked window was found on the backside of the home and the split decision was made to make entry as sometimes it may take a deputy a decent amount of time to respond and arrive on scene. Both firefighters entered the window all the while screaming "Fire department!" as loud as a Probie in fire school. Three steps into the home-they encountered an elderly woman coming at them with a .38 handgun.

The Probie attempted to run to the exterior door but was met with a locked door that would even give a decent truckie a run for his money. He dove into the corner in an attempt to hide as the lady fired off a round. The other firefighter dove back out of the window and into the yard as another round was fired at him. At this time the Lieutenant hailed our radio operator with "shots fired, shots fired-possible firefighter down!" The lieutenant looked back into the window to help the Probie and saw the lady with her gun pointed straight at him as he kneeled in the corner. The lieutenant screamed for the lady to distract her and as she turned she fired another shot at the window. She quickly retreated and the lieutenant realized the distraction and summoned the Probie to the window where he was extricated to safety.

The rest of firehouse 30 and any uniform in the vicinity dumped onto the scene within minutes upon hearing "shots fired" to assist. I'm not sure if there is a description of the emotion I felt when we arrived and all of the members were accounted for without any injuries. Lots of hugs were given. Lots of recollections traded. I always try to count my blessings but that day I counted a lot. Even the way the Probie smiles lol. We were lucky.

The lady was 3/4 deaf and had several break-ins. She was older and only acting in the fear of being alone and self defense. She still used a rotary phone which was unplugged due to extensive solicitation calls. She felt terrible when the story was explained to her. Nothing was done incorrectly as we will always err on the side of the patient and we act under implied consent. Again, we were lucky.

As company officers and firefighters alike, we are trained to make split decisions. Don't let this story change your tactic but instead give you another view. No two calls are alike-including "well being checks". Keep your head on a swivel out there. Love your crew. Train, train, train. Expect the unexpected and have a plan. Be safe out there....

Pics below are window entered and door encountered from the inside....

If that was cops doing the welfare check, she'd be dead.

[bogey1]

Does this mean that we can start looting now?

Yes, but you need a face diaper.

[PA86]

If that was cops doing the welfare check, she'd be dead.

Would she have been wrong if she had killed the firefighters?
Would the police have been wrong if they had responded first and killed the homeowner?

Or are such unfortunate outcomes sometimes an unavoidable reality in the world of emergency services?

[streaker69]

Would she have been wrong if she had killed the firefighters?
Would the police have been wrong if they had responded first and killed the homeowner?

Or are such unfortunate outcomes sometimes an unavoidable reality in the world of emergency services?

I don't see anything in the story that they actually knocked on the damn door to get anyone's attention. They went from piled up newspapers and looking in windows, to going in through a window. Only then did they identify themselves. Does the average person think that the fire department will be coming in through a window? Nope, probably not. It isn't like firefighters are the only people that are capable of yelling "fire department" as they come through a window. Criminals are quite capable of doing that too. Criminals have broken down doors while yelling "police! search warrant", all in an effort to throw people off from responding.

The crew on the scene did the correct thing, they retreated, and I'm glad that they're not dead, but at the same time, I wouldn't fault the old lady had one of them been shot. Police on the scene, wouldn't have retreated, they would have shot and killed her, because they're determined to go home safe, regardless of the confused, old woman in front of them.

[PA86]

I don't see anything in the story that they actually knocked on the damn door to get anyone's attention. They went from piled up newspapers and looking in windows, to going in through a window. Only then did they identify themselves.

Having been on many of these kinds of calls, I can assure you that whether or not it was explicitly spelled out in the facebook post, walking up to the door and knocking would have been the very first thing done.

To think that they would simply have shown up, looked around and then decided to go in through an unsecured window is quite frankly absurd.

Does the average person think that the fire department will be coming in through a window? Nope, probably not. It isn't like firefighters are the only people that are capable of yelling "fire department" as they come through a window. Criminals are quite capable of doing that too. Criminals have broken down doors while yelling "police! search warrant", all in an effort to throw people off from responding.

The crew on the scene did the correct thing, they retreated, and I'm glad that they're not dead, but at the same time, I wouldn't fault the old lady had one of them been shot. Police on the scene, wouldn't have retreated, they would have shot and killed her, because they're determined to go home safe, regardless of the confused, old woman in front of them.

I wouldn't fault the old woman either. It would have been an unfortunate confluence of circumstances.

At the same time, I wouldn't fault the cop for defending himself when confronted by the gun wielding homeowner. That too would have been an unfortunate confluence of circumstances.