Protection or bite trained dogs

**Kevin3824** · July 5th, 2020, 06:07 PM

It has been a long time since I posted here but recently been learning a lot about service dogs and such. Anyhow, I am told that should I have a dog under my control and that dog bites to protect me the dog would likely be seen as a deadly weapon by police and courts. If that is the case I’m curious if our second amendment would See the dog as an arm? It might sound crazy but the deadly weapon being the specially trained animal and being under the handlers control though likely both physical and verbal restraint.

It’s just something I thought of and I know this group is very informed upon interpretation of 2A rights and laws. I’m also concerned that upon police arrival they may simply shoot the dog even if it was protecting me. Thereby being a lawful use under castle doctrine.

If this post is against the rules please let me know and delete if need be.

**JAKIII** · July 5th, 2020, 06:26 PM

I suppose that if your dog bites then you*re liable, even if in self defense of you. However, people don*t die from attacks by a golden retriever, (i.e., if your dog kills someone then lawyer the fuck up post haste).

**Gun** · July 5th, 2020, 06:47 PM

A dog is not considered an 'arm'.

This might help; https://www.ifsecglobal.com/uncatego...gal-minefield/

**Exbiker** · July 5th, 2020, 07:08 PM

A truly well trained personal protection dog will not bite unprovoked without the handlers command. If it is not 100% under your control it's merely a liability.
I've owned and trained GSD's most of my life. Just a confident well trained dog is all you need.
When I used to walk in town lot's of times people would cross the street to avoid my dog, I even broke up a 6 or 7 person fight at Beltzville one year just using the presence of the dog till Rangers got there and arrested the bunch.
I was told by a lawyer once even having a "beware of dog" sign can be a liability. I've never heard of anybody being charged with the use of a deadly weapon for a dog attack. Lot's of other charges and suits but not deadly weapon.

**Kevin3824** · July 5th, 2020, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gun

A dog is not considered an 'arm'.

This might help; https://www.ifsecglobal.com/uncatego...gal-minefield/

Thank you. I was not really thinking about guard dogs so much as personal protection dogs. I whole heartedly believe if a dog bites someone the owner should be responsible for the damages if the person that got bit was not breaking the law at the time they received the injury. I was thinking someone attacks or pulls a weapon on an individual with a dog and the dog takes them down. Possibly detaining them till police arrive.

I can also imagine a dog owner telling the dog to attack The criminal after being physically injured by the criminal. Using a dog to protect a person or property. I have never really liked dogs trained to bite specific things like a bit sleeve.

**Kevin3824** · July 7th, 2020, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Exbiker

A truly well trained personal protection dog will not bite unprovoked without the handlers command. If it is not 100% under your control it's merely a liability.
I've owned and trained GSD's most of my life. Just a confident well trained dog is all you need.
When I used to walk in town lot's of times people would cross the street to avoid my dog, I even broke up a 6 or 7 person fight at Beltzville one year just using the presence of the dog till Rangers got there and arrested the bunch.
I was told by a lawyer once even having a "beware of dog" sign can be a liability. I've never heard of anybody being charged with the use of a deadly weapon for a dog attack. Lot's of other charges and suits but not deadly weapon.

Thanks for that insight. I always thought there was a big difference between personal protection dogs and dogs that are ipo / shutzhund or sport dogs were quite different. Seems to me you are correct about liability. I will simply get a dog train it in advanced obedience and task train it for medical alert and use it as a service dog. Not required to have it vested. Hopefully simply the presence of the dog will be a big deterrent.

**Daycrawler** · July 7th, 2020, 02:37 AM

Kevin IDK what type of dog you are considering, however keep in mind that your insurance carrier(home owners) can, and will raise your rates based on certain breeds. Consider a dog that protects naturally, such as a German Shepard. They do what is bred into them. Guard, keep an ear out and some, even patrol your property without extra training.

Our Shepard was amazing at looking after our Daughter and my Wife. When he wasn't allowed in our Daughters room he would lay across the threshold of her doorway. He watched doors and windows. If she slept on the floor he was right next to her. If he was in the front yard he wouldn't bark at the neighbors or the regular cars. He knew better. If he was out back and people were walking he would let us know. His hatred of doorbells was only second to jehova witnesses. In 12 years he never bit anyone and yet my Daughter as an infant could put her hands in his mouth. He would just lick her. Since our Shepard was white he attracted a lot of attention. Kids and adults always wanted to check him out.

Depending on the breed you pick, you may want to consider your kids, grand kids, wife and anyone who you would ask to look after your dog. IMO stay away from training a dog as personal protection.
If you have some type of disability or due to age, that may be looked at different in a defense situation. Even little dogs can be very protective. A good lawyer would sue your pants off in a "trained attack dog" bit someone at the wrong time.

On a side note Police dogs have been know to bite the wrong person, including the handler. A friend had his Police dog at home and said a similar command when calling his dogs back into the yard. One was the Police dog, the other a family pet. The pet came back, the Police dog bit a guy walking up the driveway. Since they were neighbors and friends, the guy thought nothing of walking up the driveway. The Police dog thought otherwise and bit him. He used a similar command to call both dogs back. The pet came back, the Police dog bit the friend. It all turned out ok and the handler didn't get into any trouble, or sued. A trained dog can be a great asset or a huge liability.

**ray h** · July 9th, 2020, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Daycrawler

Kevin IDK what type of dog you are considering, however keep in mind that your insurance carrier(home owners) can, and will raise your rates based on certain breeds. Consider a dog that protects naturally, such as a German Shepard. They do what is bred into them. Guard, keep an ear out and some, even patrol your property without extra training.

Our Shepard was amazing at looking after our Daughter and my Wife. When he wasn't allowed in our Daughters room he would lay across the threshold of her doorway. He watched doors and windows. If she slept on the floor he was right next to her. If he was in the front yard he wouldn't bark at the neighbors or the regular cars. He knew better. If he was out back and people were walking he would let us know. His hatred of doorbells was only second to jehova witnesses. In 12 years he never bit anyone and yet my Daughter as an infant could put her hands in his mouth. He would just lick her. Since our Shepard was white he attracted a lot of attention. Kids and adults always wanted to check him out.

Depending on the breed you pick, you may want to consider your kids, grand kids, wife and anyone who you would ask to look after your dog. IMO stay away from training a dog as personal protection.
If you have some type of disability or due to age, that may be looked at different in a defense situation. Even little dogs can be very protective. A good lawyer would sue your pants off in a "trained attack dog" bit someone at the wrong time.

On a side note Police dogs have been know to bite the wrong person, including the handler. A friend had his Police dog at home and said a similar command when calling his dogs back into the yard. One was the Police dog, the other a family pet. The pet came back, the Police dog bit a guy walking up the driveway. Since they were neighbors and friends, the guy thought nothing of walking up the driveway. The Police dog thought otherwise and bit him. He used a similar command to call both dogs back. The pet came back, the Police dog bit the friend. It all turned out ok and the handler didn't get into any trouble, or sued. A trained dog can be a great asset or a huge liability.

All true.

We used to have a GSD mix. He was obedient but not a trained protection dog. He never bit anyone but I can recall three instances where he got aggressive and had he not been restrained would probably bit, all three cases warranted the aggression. That dog was not only a great watch dog but was also a guard dog that I trusted to protect us.
Our current dog is a Lab mix. Not a bad watch dog, although as he has gotten older he sleeps pretty soundly. Not sure he would make it up in time to meet someone coming through the door in the middle of the night, but he would definitely meet them somewhere in the house. He's no "guard" dog though. He's not going to attack anyone, but will let you know they are there. All bark I guess.
Neither dog was trained to "watch", dogs just do that, they are territorial and protective by nature. Some breeds will be better "guard" or "protection" breeds than others. If you really want a dog that is trained to take on the bad guy, you need to look at a few particular breeds. If you want a watch dog, pretty much any dog will do (except that one breed that doesn't bark).
as was said, having a dog that likes to bite is a big responsibility and liability, personally I would never have a trained attack dog if I planned to interact with the public, it's just too easy for things to go bad.