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Thread: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
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July 5th, 2020, 10:58 PM #11
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
10.5" Ballistic Advantage - $111.99
https://e2armory.com/product/10-5-5-...modern-series/I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!
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July 5th, 2020, 11:07 PM #12
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
7 or 7.5 and 10.5 are the most common sizes.
Under 10" and the ballistics suffer for 5.56 - particularly at distance.
My personal choice (knowing the above going into it) was that I was more concerned with it being compact than being able to take out bad guys at 200 yards, so I went 7.5" on my 5.56.
I wouldn't mind having a 10.5" pistol now that I have "compact" covered, but no more gun money for a while.
Nitride is the deep black, "shiny" finish that has become very popular vs the dull, black phosphate that is the "normal" finish.
I honestly don't know if nitride is better for the inside - I THINK it is, but not 100% certain.
I don't get too hung up on finishes considering that I'm not putting thousands upon thousands of rounds through mine.I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!
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July 5th, 2020, 11:26 PM #13Senior Member
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Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
I had that thought too about ballistics on a 7 inch barrel, but like you, Im more wanting a short, compact "CQC" kind of rifle round pistol. Im gonna drop red dot on it, and with my eyes, I wouldnt be able to hit anything 100 yards out anyways without magnification, which I dont plan on putting on this one.
Think Im gonna grab that 8" barrel. Really appreciate the help, thanks a bunch!
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July 5th, 2020, 11:37 PM #14
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
7.5" AND 10.5" Aero Precision - $111.99 / $131.24
https://www.wingtactical.com/firearm...15-cmv-barrel/
Multiple sizes/styles in stock here in similar price ranges
https://ar15depot.com/barrels.htm/ar15-pistol-barrels
8.5" Bear Creek Arsenal SALE $75.00
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca...em-w-1-7-twist
OK. That's all I got.I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!
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July 5th, 2020, 11:41 PM #15
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
Nitride is a surface hardening and is next best to chrome when it comes to wear resistance but is generally more accurate than chrome lined.
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July 6th, 2020, 08:59 AM #16
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
Not according to the BATFE
According to the BATFE's NFA Handbook a second vertical handgrip (the first vertical handgrip is the handgrip on the lower if an AR) makes a pistol an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon) and and subjects it to the NFA because the weapon is now not designed to be fired when held in one hand.
FYI, Federal law currently does not define "Vertical Fore Grip"; however, ATF has determined that a grip of this type is distinguished by being both forward of the magazine well and oriented at a perpendicular (90-degree) angle to the bore of the weapon
Here is the full text from the BATFE:
May 4, 2006
ADDING A VERTICAL FORE GRIP TO A HANDGUN
“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and
is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18
U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).
Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11,
“pistol” is defined as:
… a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or
more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or
permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand
and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).
The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as:
… any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be
discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth
bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and
rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge
can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon
which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a
rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder
and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).
ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer
designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a
vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s
NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’
imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and
10 years’ imprisonment.
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application
on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the
completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph;
and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not
prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an
“AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only
then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.
A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The
manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2.
The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which
results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a
clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know
the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms
Technology Branch.
All that said, there is nothing (at this time) against mounting an angled foregrip to an AR pistol.Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member
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July 6th, 2020, 09:59 AM #17
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July 6th, 2020, 02:18 PM #18Senior Member
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Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
I measured on my 16" AR, from back of the receiver extension up to the 26" mark, youd need an 11.5" barrel (roughly) to bring it to 26" overall (not including a muzzle break, which I guess you could get permanently attached to drop an inch or so on the barrel length). Mine with an 8" barrel wont come close to that, but I suppose its pretty possible to get a pistol AR with a vertical grip if what you said is true.
Anyways, I might as well ask this here too, can we still have the lower receiver transferred as an "other" instead of a "pistol" or "rifle" to be able to use the lower as an either/or kind of thing, so I could conceivably swap around uppers on it, or convert it to a rifle with an adjustable stock? In the future I might try to get it registered and converted into an actual SBR, so Idk if that has anything to do with that.
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July 6th, 2020, 02:36 PM #19
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
All lowers are "other" regardless of what it may eventually become.
As for any "switcheroo": A lower that starts life as a pistol can later be switched to a rifle. Said rifle can then be switched to a pistol at any point again.
As far as I know, a lower that starts out as a rifle must stay a rifle. (unless you go the SBR route)I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!
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July 6th, 2020, 04:11 PM #20
Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?
We really are talking in this thread about AR pistols that the average person would own/build, but in some cases the 26" OAL very well could come into play. Myself, I would not want to fight with the BATFE if I had a 26" OAL AR "pistol" with a vertical hand grip. I either would lose, or spend a hell of a lot of money to be "right"
I do know that a "pistol" with an OAL greater than 26 inches changes the classification of pistol to a firearm. Firearms in excess of 26 inches OAL may have vertical grips installed and remain non-NFA. Pistols with sub-26 inches OAL with vertical grips installed would be considered AOW and are subject to the NFA
Also remember that the ATF has taken the position that because a stabilizing brace is not an integral part of the firearm, it is not relevant to the overall length measurement. However the ATF also said that the receiver extension, which the brace is attached to IS relevant to the OAL of the pistol (for the concealability factor).Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member
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