Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    33,570
    Rep Power
    21474887

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    10.5" Ballistic Advantage - $111.99
    https://e2armory.com/product/10-5-5-...modern-series/
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    33,570
    Rep Power
    21474887

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillz View Post
    I was kind of thinking of a Wylde barrel, but the more I think about it, I dont really need it on a pistol build, probably be better off getting one for my 16" rifle build.

    I was looking at that one too out of the ones you posted. Right in the middle of the 7-9 inch Ive been thinking about, and free shipping is always good. Tbh I dont know about coatings/linings much. Used to be chrome lined was the way to go. At least thats what I read long ago. I take good care of my barrels tho anyways.
    7 or 7.5 and 10.5 are the most common sizes.

    Under 10" and the ballistics suffer for 5.56 - particularly at distance.
    My personal choice (knowing the above going into it) was that I was more concerned with it being compact than being able to take out bad guys at 200 yards, so I went 7.5" on my 5.56.
    I wouldn't mind having a 10.5" pistol now that I have "compact" covered, but no more gun money for a while.

    Nitride is the deep black, "shiny" finish that has become very popular vs the dull, black phosphate that is the "normal" finish.
    I honestly don't know if nitride is better for the inside - I THINK it is, but not 100% certain.
    I don't get too hung up on finishes considering that I'm not putting thousands upon thousands of rounds through mine.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    250
    Rep Power
    2909643

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    I had that thought too about ballistics on a 7 inch barrel, but like you, Im more wanting a short, compact "CQC" kind of rifle round pistol. Im gonna drop red dot on it, and with my eyes, I wouldnt be able to hit anything 100 yards out anyways without magnification, which I dont plan on putting on this one.

    Think Im gonna grab that 8" barrel. Really appreciate the help, thanks a bunch!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    33,570
    Rep Power
    21474887

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    7.5" AND 10.5" Aero Precision - $111.99 / $131.24
    https://www.wingtactical.com/firearm...15-cmv-barrel/

    Multiple sizes/styles in stock here in similar price ranges
    https://ar15depot.com/barrels.htm/ar15-pistol-barrels

    8.5" Bear Creek Arsenal SALE $75.00
    https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca...em-w-1-7-twist


    OK. That's all I got.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Mt. Pleasant
    Posts
    2,437
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Nitride is a surface hardening and is next best to chrome when it comes to wear resistance but is generally more accurate than chrome lined.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,607
    Rep Power
    21474859

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Everything you mentioned is legal except for a vertical grip.

    Have at it.


    EDIT: I believe a vert grip CAN be used on a pistol provided the pistol has a length of over XX inches
    Not according to the BATFE

    According to the BATFE's NFA Handbook a second vertical handgrip (the first vertical handgrip is the handgrip on the lower if an AR) makes a pistol an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon) and and subjects it to the NFA because the weapon is now not designed to be fired when held in one hand.

    FYI, Federal law currently does not define "Vertical Fore Grip"; however, ATF has determined that a grip of this type is distinguished by being both forward of the magazine well and oriented at a perpendicular (90-degree) angle to the bore of the weapon

    Here is the full text from the BATFE:

    May 4, 2006
    ADDING A VERTICAL FORE GRIP TO A HANDGUN
    “Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and
    is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18
    U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).

    Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11,
    “pistol” is defined as:

    … a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or
    more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or
    permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand
    and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

    The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as:
    … any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be
    discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth
    bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and
    rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge
    can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon
    which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a
    rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder
    and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

    ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer
    designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a
    vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s
    NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’
    imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and
    10 years’ imprisonment.

    To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application
    on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the
    completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph;
    and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not
    prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an
    “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only
    then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

    A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The
    manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2.
    The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which
    results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a
    clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know
    the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms
    Technology Branch.

    All that said, there is nothing (at this time) against mounting an angled foregrip to an AR pistol.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Mt. Pleasant
    Posts
    2,437
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Not according to the BATFE

    According to the BATFE's NFA Handbook a second vertical handgrip (the first vertical handgrip is the handgrip on the lower if an AR) makes a pistol an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon) and and subjects it to the NFA because the weapon is now not designed to be fired when held in one hand.

    FYI, Federal law currently does not define "Vertical Fore Grip"; however, ATF has determined that a grip of this type is distinguished by being both forward of the magazine well and oriented at a perpendicular (90-degree) angle to the bore of the weapon

    Here is the full text from the BATFE:

    May 4, 2006
    ADDING A VERTICAL FORE GRIP TO A HANDGUN
    *Handgun* is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and
    is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand*. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18
    U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).

    Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11,
    *pistol* is defined as:

    * a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or
    more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or
    permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand
    and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

    The NFA further defines the term *any other weapon* (AOW) as:
    * any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be
    discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth
    bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and
    rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge
    can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon
    which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a
    rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder
    and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

    ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer
    designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a
    vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are *making* a firearm requiring registration with ATF*s
    NFA Branch. Making an unregistered *AOW* is punishable by a fine and 10 years*
    imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered *AOW* is also punishable by fine and
    10 years* imprisonment.

    To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application
    on ATF Form 1, *Application to Make and Register a Firearm.* The applicant must submit the
    completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant*s fingerprints; a photograph;
    and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not
    prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an
    *AOW* is not prohibited in the applicant*s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only
    then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

    A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The
    manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2.
    The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which
    results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a
    clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know
    the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms
    Technology Branch.

    All that said, there is nothing (at this time) against mounting an angled foregrip to an AR pistol.
    A "pistol" longer than 26" CAN have a vertical grip because it's not a "pistol" it is only a "firearm" the 26" makes it not an aow because that is the limit they put on conceal ability

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    250
    Rep Power
    2909643

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    I measured on my 16" AR, from back of the receiver extension up to the 26" mark, youd need an 11.5" barrel (roughly) to bring it to 26" overall (not including a muzzle break, which I guess you could get permanently attached to drop an inch or so on the barrel length). Mine with an 8" barrel wont come close to that, but I suppose its pretty possible to get a pistol AR with a vertical grip if what you said is true.

    Anyways, I might as well ask this here too, can we still have the lower receiver transferred as an "other" instead of a "pistol" or "rifle" to be able to use the lower as an either/or kind of thing, so I could conceivably swap around uppers on it, or convert it to a rifle with an adjustable stock? In the future I might try to get it registered and converted into an actual SBR, so Idk if that has anything to do with that.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    33,570
    Rep Power
    21474887

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillz View Post
    I measured on my 16" AR, from back of the receiver extension up to the 26" mark, youd need an 11.5" barrel (roughly) to bring it to 26" overall (not including a muzzle break, which I guess you could get permanently attached to drop an inch or so on the barrel length). Mine with an 8" barrel wont come close to that, but I suppose its pretty possible to get a pistol AR with a vertical grip if what you said is true.

    Anyways, I might as well ask this here too, can we still have the lower receiver transferred as an "other" instead of a "pistol" or "rifle" to be able to use the lower as an either/or kind of thing, so I could conceivably swap around uppers on it, or convert it to a rifle with an adjustable stock? In the future I might try to get it registered and converted into an actual SBR, so Idk if that has anything to do with that.
    All lowers are "other" regardless of what it may eventually become.

    As for any "switcheroo": A lower that starts life as a pistol can later be switched to a rifle. Said rifle can then be switched to a pistol at any point again.

    As far as I know, a lower that starts out as a rifle must stay a rifle. (unless you go the SBR route)
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,607
    Rep Power
    21474859

    Default Re: Foregrip on AR Pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    A "pistol" longer than 26" CAN have a vertical grip because it's not a "pistol" it is only a "firearm" the 26" makes it not an aow because that is the limit they put on conceal ability
    We really are talking in this thread about AR pistols that the average person would own/build, but in some cases the 26" OAL very well could come into play. Myself, I would not want to fight with the BATFE if I had a 26" OAL AR "pistol" with a vertical hand grip. I either would lose, or spend a hell of a lot of money to be "right"

    I do know that a "pistol" with an OAL greater than 26 inches changes the classification of pistol to a firearm. Firearms in excess of 26 inches OAL may have vertical grips installed and remain non-NFA. Pistols with sub-26 inches OAL with vertical grips installed would be considered AOW and are subject to the NFA

    Also remember that the ATF has taken the position that because a stabilizing brace is not an integral part of the firearm, it is not relevant to the overall length measurement. However the ATF also said that the receiver extension, which the brace is attached to IS relevant to the OAL of the pistol (for the concealability factor).
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Angled Foregrip... Like it or not?
    By Mtbkski in forum General
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: February 7th, 2013, 11:22 AM
  2. Remington 870 foregrip
    By Zet70 in forum General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 22nd, 2009, 10:56 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •