Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigToFit View Post
    It's not an NFA firearm that you're sending to the person, it's a box of parts.

    IMO (standard IANAL disclaimer), if you're receiving it as an NFA firearm, it goes on a Form 4.
    Once you have an approved form 1 on that receiver it is an nfa item

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    If someone else is going to build it from the parts you send them, then you do nothing but send the parts to them. It IS NOT gunsmithing for a company to put all the parts together into an NFA item, it is manufacturing. Since the company is an 07/02, they can manufacture it. Then, when built, they need to Form 3 (tax free transfer) to your FFL where you will then do a Form 4 to get it transferred to you.

    Now, as said, if you do the Form 1, once it is approved, it is now an NFA item whether in pieces or not. So if you start to put it together and and run into problems, then it could be considered gunsmithing for any FFL to finish the build and send it back to you. But it might be questioned by the ATF (if they heard about it) if you did the Form 1 and never put any of it together and let someone else build it. It's a legal argument I would not want to get into.

    That is the gray area in the NFA world. Like an 80% lower, a 01 FFL gunsmith CANNOT do all the work to make it into a lower receiver because that is considered manufacturing. However, if the 80% owner drills the hammer pin, trigger pin, trigger and safety holes, and starts to mill out the fcg area, by ATF rules it is now a firearm and an 01 gunsmith could finish it because it is considered a firearm and gunsmiths can work on them. So it would sort of be the same if you have an approved Form 1 and already had parts put together and then had a gunsmith finish it for you. He's not actually manufacturing it for you he is repairing it to be in working order.

    Confusing, yep.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; June 14th, 2020 at 03:17 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
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    New Tripoli, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    Supposedly BATF are going after Form 1 suppressor now.





  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Moscow, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYABEAN View Post
    Supposedly BATF are going after Form 1 suppressor now.







    Everyone on Reddit has been denied for form 1 kits with verbiage stating that the form 1 suppressor kit is already considered a silencer. Even those who are lathe turning all their parts

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Scenery Hill, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    I can't stand that guy.

    There's a lot of info on this form 1 suppressor mass denial on arfcom/reddit/FB.

    It seems to be related to Prince Law and Diversified Machine: https://blog.princelaw.com/2022/02/2...hine-products/

    Also the rumor mill says anyone with a form 1 suppressor in their possession will have their stamp revoked and their form 1 suppressor will have to be turned in.
    In America arms are free merchandise such that anyone who has the capital may make their houses into armories and their gardens into parks of artillery. - Ira Allen, 1796

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Default Re: Sending out form1 parts kit to be built

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    Once you have an approved form 1 on that receiver it is an nfa item
    I don't think this is correct. Until it has actually been assembled into some configuration that qualifies as the registered NFA configuration, it is still just a title 1 receiver.

    As Xringshooter mentioned, it is sort of a gray area as to whether attempted, but failed assembly into an NFA configuration would qualify as "making" the firearm. Once the NFA firearm is "made", then a gunsmith can repair it. But an 07/02 isn't supposed to "make" your NFA firearm on a form 1 for you.

    If you file for a Form 1 and get an approved stamp, but then take no further actions towards assembling the NFA firearm yourself, the NFA firearm does not exist because it has not (yet) been made.

    Case in point: a would-be "maker" can request a cancellation of a form 1 and receive a refund for a tax stamp from ATF if the NFA firearm was never actually built. (At least within a reasonable period of time; not sure if there is an upper bound on requesting/receiving a refund.)


    SBR and SBS definitions refer to specific configurations. If a firearm does not meet those definitions, then it is not an "NFA" title 2 firearm at that time, despite being registered in the NFRTR.

    This is similar to the reason why it is perfectly legal to put a 16" upper on an AR lower "registered" as an SBR and take it out of state without filing the 5320.20 form. (i.e. a temporary change in configuration that happens to not meet the definition of SBR, therefore not treated as NFA.) Upon returning home, the short upper can be reinstalled.

    This is also the reason why a person can install a 16" barrel or remove a stock from an SBR (that was made from a pistol) and sell the firearm as a Title 1 gun since it doesn't meet the definition of an SBR any more. (In this case, they should probably notify ATF that it is no longer in NFA configuration and should be removed from NFRTR so that they don't get in trouble for illegally transferring an NFA item if the new owner slaps on a short upper.)

    Note, that this is different than the "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" opinion that is based on the specific definition of a machine gun. Different NFA categories are treated differently, and this is where the confusion seems to come from.
    Last edited by buckengr; March 2nd, 2022 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Just realized the post I replied to is 2 years old... whoops.
    I am not a lawyer.

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