Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    It would be helpful to explain how the "freedom & the Constitution, motherfucker" argument works when talking to Typhoid Mary, the food worker with typhus who kept changing her name to get work as a cook.

    "From 1900 to 1907, Mallon worked as a cook in the New York City area for eight families, seven of which contracted typhoid. In 1900, she worked in Mamaroneck, New York, where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever. In 1901, she moved to Manhattan, where members of the family for whom she worked developed fevers and diarrhea, and the laundress died. Mallon then went to work for a lawyer and left after seven of the eight people in that household became ill.

    In June 1904, she was hired by a prosperous lawyer, Henry Gilsey. Within a week, the laundress was infected with typhoid, and soon four of the seven servants were ill. No members of Gilsey's family were infected, because they resided separately, and the servants lived in their own house. The investigator Dr. R. L. Wilson concluded that the laundress had caused the outbreak, but he failed to prove it. Immediately after the outbreak began, Mallon left and moved to Tuxedo Park, where she was hired by George Kessler. Two weeks later, the laundress in his household was infected and taken to St. Joseph's Regional Medical Center, where her case of typhoid was the first in a long time.

    In August 1906, Mallon took a position in Oyster Bay on Long Island with the family of a wealthy New York banker, Charles Henry Warren. Mallon went along with the Warrens when they rented a house in Oyster Bay for the summer of 1906. From August 27 to September 3, six of the 11 people in the family came down with typhoid fever."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

    Masks aren't about you, they're about protecting others from you, in a time when we don't have universal testing, and many infected people show no symptoms but are capable of infecting others, who may die. Mary Mallon's spewing of typhus was only stopped when the authorities grabbed her and quarantined her, because she (like many today) was utterly unwilling to inconvenience herself just to avoid killing others.

    I'm not saying that shutting down the economy is a good idea. I'm saying that wearing masks to keep your infected snot away from others is a good idea. And "liberty" doesn't mean that YOU get to do whatever you want while all those around you have to suck it up.
    From someone in the high risk age group, thank you and well said.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    It would be helpful to explain how the "freedom & the Constitution, motherfucker" argument works when talking to Typhoid Mary, the food worker with typhus who kept changing her name to get work as a cook.

    "From 1900 to 1907, Mallon worked as a cook in the New York City area for eight families, seven of which contracted typhoid. In 1900, she worked in Mamaroneck, New York, where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever. In 1901, she moved to Manhattan, where members of the family for whom she worked developed fevers and diarrhea, and the laundress died. Mallon then went to work for a lawyer and left after seven of the eight people in that household became ill.

    In June 1904, she was hired by a prosperous lawyer, Henry Gilsey. Within a week, the laundress was infected with typhoid, and soon four of the seven servants were ill. No members of Gilsey's family were infected, because they resided separately, and the servants lived in their own house. The investigator Dr. R. L. Wilson concluded that the laundress had caused the outbreak, but he failed to prove it. Immediately after the outbreak began, Mallon left and moved to Tuxedo Park, where she was hired by George Kessler. Two weeks later, the laundress in his household was infected and taken to St. Joseph's Regional Medical Center, where her case of typhoid was the first in a long time.

    In August 1906, Mallon took a position in Oyster Bay on Long Island with the family of a wealthy New York banker, Charles Henry Warren. Mallon went along with the Warrens when they rented a house in Oyster Bay for the summer of 1906. From August 27 to September 3, six of the 11 people in the family came down with typhoid fever."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

    Masks aren't about you, they're about protecting others from you, in a time when we don't have universal testing, and many infected people show no symptoms but are capable of infecting others, who may die. Mary Mallon's spewing of typhus was only stopped when the authorities grabbed her and quarantined her, because she (like many today) was utterly unwilling to inconvenience herself just to avoid killing others.

    I'm not saying that shutting down the economy is a good idea. I'm saying that wearing masks to keep your infected snot away from others is a good idea. And "liberty" doesn't mean that YOU get to do whatever you want while all those around you have to suck it up.
    Youve taken your argument to the extreme to make your point, I get that, but Typhus and Covid 19 are not the same thing, and Mary knew she had Typhus and went out to spread it anyway, something most people would not do, and while there is no vaccine for Covid 19, there are effective treatments that reduce the mortality rate down to about the same rate as the common flu or the common cold. You can take any argument to the extreme and make whatever point you want to out of it, but when you take this for what it is in reality, it's just a notch above nothing.
    Even before Covid 19 it was illegal to spit or blow snot on another person, was it not? That hasn't changed. So now we have to wear masked to keep us from doing something that was already illegal and/or at least frowned upon. Nothing has changed except now we are not trusted to not expel fluids on others without the government ordering dress code restrictions on healthy people. Yes, healthy people, because 99.999% of the people ordered to wear masks do not have the virus.
    At what point do we stop this, the curve is flat, the medical community is not overwhelmed, we have adequate equipment and treatments, Covid 19 cases are dropping every day even as other restrictions are lifted.
    How do you justify mandating masks for every single person while less than 1/1000 people may be able to spread the virus (even if you were to actually swap spit with them not to mention the chances of their spit actually landing on your mucus membrane in daily conversation). When not elevated to the level of Typhus, it seems ridiculous.
    The Hostler

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    It is up to those at risk individuals to protect themselves. It is not up to the rest of society to engage in a dog and pony show, that is basically ineffectual, just to make those at risk feel safe while not actually making them so.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...sed-sound-data

    While this is not an exhaustive review of masks and respirators as source control and PPE, we made our best effort to locate and review the most relevant studies of laboratory and real-world performance to inform our recommendations. Results from laboratory studies of filter and fit performance inform and support the findings in real-world settings.

    Cloth masks are ineffective as source control and PPE, surgical masks have some role to play in preventing emissions from infected patients, and respirators are the best choice for protecting healthcare and other frontline workers, but not recommended for source control. These recommendations apply to pandemic and non-pandemic situations.
    Non-medical masks are useless at best, and may even contribute to the spread of the virus through cross contamination.
    It seems like everyone wears masks in china and most of southeast asia even when they are healthy. It doesn't seem to have affected anything there.
    Last edited by jcourson; February 17th, 2021 at 05:29 PM.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by ray h View Post
    Youve taken your argument to the extreme to make your point, I get that, but Typhus and Covid 19 are not the same thing, and Mary knew she had Typhus and went out to spread it anyway, something most people would not do, and while there is no vaccine for Covid 19, there are effective treatments that reduce the mortality rate down to about the same rate as the common flu or the common cold. You can take any argument to the extreme and make whatever point you want to out of it, but when you take this for what it is in reality, it's just a notch above nothing.
    Even before Covid 19 it was illegal to spit or blow snot on another person, was it not? That hasn't changed. So now we have to wear masked to keep us from doing something that was already illegal and/or at least frowned upon. Nothing has changed except now we are not trusted to not expel fluids on others without the government ordering dress code restrictions on healthy people. Yes, healthy people, because 99.999% of the people ordered to wear masks do not have the virus.
    At what point do we stop this, the curve is flat, the medical community is not overwhelmed, we have adequate equipment and treatments, Covid 19 cases are dropping every day even as other restrictions are lifted.
    How do you justify mandating masks for every single person while less than 1/1000 people may be able to spread the virus (even if you were to actually swap spit with them not to mention the chances of their spit actually landing on your mucus membrane in daily conversation). When not elevated to the level of Typhus, it seems ridiculous.
    Mary was immune to typhus, she was just a carrier, so according to some here, the rest of the world should have just put on their big-boy pants if they were afraid of catching typhus, instead of making her take a pay cut from $50/month as a cook to $20/month as anything else.

    She infected at least 53 people, and 3 who died. Typhus isn't exactly Ebola. But people who have typhus have an obligation to not infect others, and at the time, Mary didn't believe she had typhus because she never felt sick, and "science" didn't believe in asymptomatic typhus. I suspect some percentage of PAFOA regulars would defend her right to earn a living doing work in arms-length transactions (although if she told prospective employers her name, they'd refuse, which is why she used aliases.) Because "freedom".

    I don't have the perfect answer to this, although technology often provides a solution, eventually. Unless the last sample of COVID-19 is isolated and destroyed, or we get a vaccine and a cure, we will always have some folks wandering around spreading it. Should we just accept that we will need to wear masks forever? Should we shut down all businesses and let the govt run sealed factories to produce the food and consumer goods they think we need? Should we let Darwin take over and just kill off most of the old people and sickly kids and fat people, so that in the future we'll have fewer Americans but healthier Americans (see the Star Trek episode "The Omega Glory", e.g.; also, Joe Stalin) It really depends on who you're willing to foist the costs onto.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Mary was immune to typhus, she was just a carrier, so according to some here, the rest of the world should have just put on their big-boy pants if they were afraid of catching typhus, instead of making her take a pay cut from $50/month as a cook to $20/month as anything else.

    She infected at least 53 people, and 3 who died. Typhus isn't exactly Ebola. But people who have typhus have an obligation to not infect others, and at the time, Mary didn't believe she had typhus because she never felt sick, and "science" didn't believe in asymptomatic typhus. I suspect some percentage of PAFOA regulars would defend her right to earn a living doing work in arms-length transactions (although if she told prospective employers her name, they'd refuse, which is why she used aliases.) Because "freedom".

    I don't have the perfect answer to this, although technology often provides a solution, eventually. Unless the last sample of COVID-19 is isolated and destroyed, or we get a vaccine and a cure, we will always have some folks wandering around spreading it. Should we just accept that we will need to wear masks forever? Should we shut down all businesses and let the govt run sealed factories to produce the food and consumer goods they think we need? Should we let Darwin take over and just kill off most of the old people and sickly kids and fat people, so that in the future we'll have fewer Americans but healthier Americans (see the Star Trek episode "The Omega Glory", e.g.; also, Joe Stalin) It really depends on who you're willing to foist the costs onto.
    This disease isn't nearly as deadly as they claimed it was. They used faulty models to push their idea that shutting down the country would stop it. Should we do that with every disease that spreads and has the potential to kill people with comorbidities? Is it a shame that people are dying from this? Maybe, no more than people dying of any other disease that we've never destroyed the economy for.

    Your post there sounds like the longer version of "if it saves just one life, it's worth it." I've asked multiple times, how long do you people that think wearing a mask is a good idea should we be forced to wear them to go about our daily business? Personally, I don't want to live my life that way, if that makes me a selfish prick, so be it, but I'm sick of it. It's pointless to force healthy people to wear them. If you're fearful of catching it, wear a mask, stay 6'1" away from people, dress yourself up in a hazmat suit for all I care, but don't force me to live your mania.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    This disease isn't nearly as deadly as they claimed it was. They used faulty models to push their idea that shutting down the country would stop it. Should we do that with every disease that spreads and has the potential to kill people with comorbidities? Is it a shame that people are dying from this? Maybe, no more than people dying of any other disease that we've never destroyed the economy for.

    Your post there sounds like the longer version of "if it saves just one life, it's worth it." I've asked multiple times, how long do you people that think wearing a mask is a good idea should we be forced to wear them to go about our daily business? Personally, I don't want to live my life that way, if that makes me a selfish prick, so be it, but I'm sick of it. It's pointless to force healthy people to wear them. If you're fearful of catching it, wear a mask, stay 6'1" away from people, dress yourself up in a hazmat suit for all I care, but don't force me to live your mania.
    I was pretty explicit about not pushing any particular solution, because unlike some here, I don't see complex issues as binary.

    Just as a thought problem: Does your laissez-faire approach also apply to seniors in nursing homes? Why?

    What about kids with peanut allergies, should schools go back to letting every kid bring in PB&J sandwiches and just accept that some 5 year olds will die? There are arguments on both sides of that.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I was pretty explicit about not pushing any particular solution, because unlike some here, I don't see complex issues as binary.

    Just as a thought problem: Does your laissez-faire approach also apply to seniors in nursing homes? Why?

    What about kids with peanut allergies, should schools go back to letting every kid bring in PB&J sandwiches and just accept that some 5 year olds will die? There are arguments on both sides of that.
    You should stop carrying a gun because it scares some people and guns are known to kill kids.

    As I ask, how long do we do this? What's the criteria for letting us live our lives unmasked? It's almost as though no one has ever died from a contagious disease before.

    As far as PB in schools, when my kids were still going to a public school they kept the weak kids at a separate table so that other kids could enjoy their PB sammiches. I've never been a big fan of punishing the entire class for the misdeeds or weakness of a few. There are solutions that don't involve stupidity. Everyone wants to talk about science, where's the government approved triple blind study that shows that masks have been effective at flattening the curve? Is there one or is it all a tranny fantasy?
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by jcourson View Post
    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...sed-sound-data



    Non-medical masks are useless at best, and may even contribute to the spread of the virus through cross contamination.
    It seems like everyone wears masks in china and most of southeast asia even when they are healthy. It doesn't seem to have affected anything there.
    they wear masks in those areas because the air quality is literal shit; you'd be better off breathing in actual sewer gas. heavy particulates are so prevalent that you'll blacken your mask within a couple hours, and "white shirt" workers will have to change mid-day from it getting dingy. a little corona is the LEAST of their worries.
    Member: NJ "undocumented" Felons Club. NRA Life Member

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Target in Chambersburg: OC butthole

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I was pretty explicit about not pushing any particular solution, because unlike some here, I don't see complex issues as binary.

    Just as a thought problem: Does your laissez-faire approach also apply to seniors in nursing homes? Why?

    What about kids with peanut allergies, should schools go back to letting every kid bring in PB&J sandwiches and just accept that some 5 year olds will die? There are arguments on both sides of that.
    Include me in the group who doesn't profess to know the answer to everyone's ills, but I'm getting a pretty good idea of the answer for ME. For me, the day is coming soon when I just say "no more mask". That decision will have nothing to do with anyone else, it'll have to do with what is right for me.
    Life is dangerous, it's a lot more dangerous when you have to depend on government regulations to keep you safe.
    I really feel that social distancing accounts for 80%, washing hands accounts for 10%, cleaning surfaces accounts for 8% and masks account for 2% in stopping/slowing the spread. Seriously, just stay away from people, wash your hands and what you touch, and this shit will go away, with or without masks.
    The Hostler

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