Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    PA already has a red flag law, its called a PFA. Same thing happens with both, she swears out a statement and they go and collect your guns. Saw it happen back in 2013 to a friend. NOTHING different.
    Yes and no. The PFA abuse is horrible, no doubt, but the existing law has its limits. Currently, some type of connection must exist between 2 parties (see below). I can't get a PFA against you under current law.

    With red flag laws, pretty much anyone can have "concern" about anyone else, perhaps over something as simple as a comment on social media.


    Current "relationship" requirements between PFA parties:

    • related by marriage (spouse, in-laws, etc.); or
    • related by bloodline (parent, children, cousins); or
    • biological parents of a child; or
    • current or past "intimate" partners. Intimate does not necessarily mean sexual (dating, etc.).
    Attention NRA Life and voting members - LPRGCFRANK running for NRA board of directors

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    seems like hell as of late
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Quote Originally Posted by john9001 View Post
    You should have given her the house, cheaper in the long run. Been there, once.
    probably not as I'm sure he would have to continue to pay for the house while she lived in it...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Somewhere in a post here in the past I detailed the saga of a close friend that was the absolute victim of this false PFA abuse. He had a long term gf (living with him for 6 years) and when they started having diverging opinions of finances and spending, and her having a history of using the PFA process in two prior relationships, she ended up over the next two years getting three PFA's filed against him. None of which were made permanent, and by the end actually had the local PD refusing to serve the last one to him personally.
    Anyway, she had his guns taken in the first PFA, and even after the third PFA was extended but not made permanent (a real plea bargain that his lawyer and I had to get him to agree to so the PFA abuse could be flipped on her if she continued this crap) it still took a year after that to get his guns back from the West Deer PD. Not going to go into all the crazy crap she did, except to say that the first PFA got him removed from his own house, she was never on any titles, deeds, mortgages, nothing. For ten days he could not get within 250 feet of his own house, and she had a moving company empty out his house. All of the furniture, his kids stuff too, it was unreal.

    The PFA at first is a Temporary Order of Protection that is granted and there is an appearance date of about 30 days out from that. There is literally nothing you can do in that period, except get a lawyer that deals with Family Court even more than Criminal Defense. So you go to that hearing, and the judge has a few options. They can terminate the petition right there, they can extend the Temporary nature of the Petition for up to 6 months I believe, or they can make the Petition permanent, which becomes a conviction for Domestic Violence in your Criminal Record.

    So over two years (and keep in mind she moved out but kept cat baiting him into talking to her, trying to get him to take her back , blah blah blah) she dinged him with two more PFA's and he had to go through the same court process again. She couldn't take any of his stuff again since she had it all already, but she just kept this up. The third PFA, they had not had a single call, conversation, third party convo, nothing and she vent victim shopping and found some advocacy group that would advocate for her at a PFA hearing for a petition. At that hearing, my buddy had to convince his own attorney that he had nothing to do with her to give her any grounds to get a PFA. What she didn't know, though, was that when she packed up the house and left, she left a Women's guidebook on using the PFA process behind. It was seriously highlighted and pages flagged with post it notes on what to say (verbage on "fearing" him, "fearing for her life"). That kind of got the attorney's attention.

    They have pre-trial conferences, and her atty wants to have the PFA made permanent (which would cost him his job in a health care provider). His attorney doesn't think that is going to happen, but the judge they get assigned is of course a noted man hater. So he works out a three month continuance of the PFA with notes that at the end of the temp PFA if she tries this crap again basically without witnesses and scars or bruises, she can be charged with harassment. Even though it was bullshit, we talked him into that deal to eliminate the possibility of being given a verdict from a judge that could have been a wild card and very very bad.

    So getting back to his guns, they were still sitting in a locker at West Deer, being taken from him more than two years prior. There is a clear cut policy and procedure for them to take your guns, but nobody knows anything when you are supposed ot be abl eto get them back. With the expiration of the temporary PFA, there is no longer an order in place preventing him from getting his property back. Went to West Deer with the Court determination, and they said they can't release anything without a court order. Which is not true, its not anywhere in the process. So he went to the Allegheny County Clerk of Courts and the judge's office, and they tell him, no, they don't issue any Court Orders for that. Tis seriously goes on for more than another two months. I have a cousin that is a General Practice Attorney, and I ask him if he can get a letter or anything. I don't know what he does, but he calls and talks to someone at the courthouse that calls West Deer and all of the sudden West Deer is calling my buddy and bending over backwards to meet for him to pick up his guns. He goes and finally gets them back. Almost three years total from confiscation, but almost a year from when the last temp PFA expired to when he was able get his property back.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    She wanted me to pay for half the house while I wasnt living there. She also wanted me to pay for all of the utilities and even her groceries. And she makes more than I do.

    I finally got in contact with the sheriff. He claims hes calling me back this week once they figure out how theyre returning guns without contact.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tioga County, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Interesting story VooDoo, I'd heard this stories and then I saw it happen to someone I know. I also saw the paper her attorney sent detailing all the blackmail that if he paid up, they'd drop the PFA. He went through hell for a few years but he also fought like hell and turned the tables. But it didn't take him long to find a random single mommy and move her in, so wash rinse repeat.

    Trying to convince guys not to be Capt Save A Ho is a pointless task.

    I have a policy of no moving women into the house, there is no tactical or strategic advantage to it that will benefit you. The current system puts all the responsibility on the man but none of the authority.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tioga County, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryancanon View Post
    She wanted me to pay for half the house while I wasnt living there. She also wanted me to pay for all of the utilities and even her groceries. And she makes more than I do.
    I'd say how about a big fat NO.

    One of the undeniable truths of life is that women expect to be paid, whether they leave or you leave.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryancanon View Post
    She wanted me to pay for half the house while I wasnt living there. She also wanted me to pay for all of the utilities and even her groceries. And she makes more than I do.

    I finally got in contact with the sheriff. He claims hes calling me back this week once they figure out how theyre returning guns without contact.
    If I recall correctly from what he told me, when my buddy went to pick up his property, the PD had scheduled a time with him. He drove there, and they had an open garage bay. They had him pull in and his guns were on a table there. He verified what they were giving him back was the same as what they took, he signed and dated the inventory sheet and loaded his stuff into his trunk. He had a total of about 14 guns, equal mix of long guns and pistols.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Quote Originally Posted by VooDoo1VooDoo1 View Post
    If I recall correctly from what he told me, when my buddy went to pick up his property, the PD had scheduled a time with him. He drove there, and they had an open garage bay. They had him pull in and his guns were on a table there. He verified what they were giving him back was the same as what they took, he signed and dated the inventory sheet and loaded his stuff into his trunk. He had a total of about 14 guns, equal mix of long guns and pistols.
    I believe I have to pass a PICS check before they will give them back to me. Not sure if the Sheriffs office can do that beforehand or not.

    Im with wanneroo, no one is moving in with me again.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    Yep, PD ran a PICS check before he got there for the scheduled meeting.

    And you and Wanaroo have my support. Divorced long ago and never made that mistake again, although I have to say I was close.

    Another funny viewpoint. Spent last night on the phone with an old female friend, she called me for some background checking questions, around her second! soon to be ex husband that now wants to be a woman. He would steal her clothes, cut her jeans into Daisy Dukes and had a six year thing going on. So she's kind of a kindred spirit to you guys, only with boobs. :-)

    She needed a sanity check about how she could find two guys years apart that both wanted to be women. Kindred in the sense of her saying, "never again".
    Last edited by VooDoo1VooDoo1; May 6th, 2020 at 10:55 AM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: PFA- getting guns back

    I know this is hard to believe, but the Sheriff didnt call me back last week or today. I guess I have to get my attorney involved.

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