Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Local FFL burned me for $21,600, who wants to play make them know their mistake?

    Had a deal for linked mini gun ammo from lake city. Local ffl WLG Firearms LLC committed to buy a pallet. 24 cans, 1500rds per can, 36,000 rounds. .60 a round, which for factory linked lake city 308 is pretty good. Call and speak with the owner, Will Gotwals.(side note here, I’ve sold him machine guns and stuff in the past, so knows who I am, not some random guy that called him) Explain to him the ammo needs to be committed to, ordered, when ready it will ship directly from Lake City. This was before the shut down. He mails me a check for the ammo, I get it, deposit it, make the order.

    He calls the NEXT day and asks if he can come pick it up. Uh, no? It’s processing from lake city? It takes time to ship. He flips out, says he was talking to a DIFFERENT person who also ordered ammo and he ASSUMED he could pick it up as soon as his check cleared. No, that’s not the case, I explained the deal on the phone. He says he wants a refund. I explain the payment has been made, I can’t just send him a refund. I tell him if I can find another buyer I’ll be happy to get him out of the ammo. I tell him when I get a buyer I’ll send him a refund. He says thanks.

    That night I get an email from my bank that a check has been declined for a stop payment. He put a stop payment on the check, and didn’t even have the decency to let me know when I told him I was going out of my way to try and fix his problem.

    I mean I get it, these are trying times. Maybe he had a cash call, needed the money. But to stop payment on an order you placed and not even even notify the seller when they are trying to assist you in the issue? Of course now its been ten days, no replies to repeated requests from me for him to make this right. So that’s it, I gave him a chance, now he can enjoy what comes. Feel free to share, post else where, light up his social media. I don’t appreciate scummy people, or dealers. So here is his ffl and his main trucking company. Feel free to let them know how we appreciate dealers like this.

    And trust me, other avenues will be taken, I’m just letting people know what kind of person owns these local business.

    ****edit to clarify

    The was a group buy. Machine gun guys do this sort of deal a couple of times a year. Lake city won’t sell you just a pallet of ammo. This total deal was over 600,000 rounds. So we have to do it collectively or not do it at all. I’ve done $20,000+ deals with this company before, so that’s why I took his word. Now he burned that, so I’m letting others know to not deal with a sleaze ball
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    Last edited by damcv62; April 11th, 2020 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    That bites. I know of the company, they are local to me. At least you should be able to recoup your money on it but it'll be a PITA for you to handle and ship.
    Gender confusion is a mental illness

  3. #3
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    Allentown, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    You played middleman and he backed out on a deal for which his merchandise was not yet delivered, I wouldn't really call that "burned for $21,600" since you still have a pallet of desirable ammo. You'll just have to sit on it for a bit until you find another buyer.


    Take it to Knob Creek in the back of a truck with a big "for sale" sign, you'll probably sell it all in a day.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    .60 a round is still to high for me . I remember plinking that crap like it were .22s.
    Thas a lot of moolah..

  5. #5
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    So did you put out the 21K to order the ammo until his check cleared? He stops payment to you and you are out 21K.


    From the PA. crimes code.


    § 4105. Bad checks.
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) A person commits an offense if he issues or passes a check or similar sight order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee.
    (2) A person commits an offense if he, knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee, issues or passes a check or similar sight order for the payment of money when the drawee is located within this Commonwealth. A violation of this paragraph shall occur without regard to whether the location of the issuance or passing of the check or similar sight order is within or outside of this Commonwealth. It shall be no defense to a violation of this section that some or all of the acts constituting the offense occurred outside of this Commonwealth.
    (b) Presumptions.--For the purposes of this section as well as in any prosecution for theft committed by means of a bad check, the following shall apply:
    (1) An issuer is presumed to know that the check or order (other than a post-dated check or order) would not be paid, if:
    (i) payment was refused because the issuer had no such account with the drawee at the time the check or order was issued; or
    (ii) payment was refused by the drawee for lack of funds, upon presentation within 30 days after issue, and the issuer failed to make good within ten days after receiving notice of that refusal.
    Notice of refusal may be given to the issuer orally or in writing by any person. Proof that notice was sent by registered or certified mail, regardless of whether a receipt was requested or returned, to the address printed on the check or, if none, then to the issuer's last known address, shall raise a presumption that the notice was received.
    (2) A check or order stamped "NSF" or "insufficient funds" shall raise a presumption that payment was refused by the drawee for lack of funds.
    (3) A check or order stamped "account closed" or "no such account" or "counterfeit" shall raise a presumption that payment was refused by the drawee because the issuer had no such account with the drawee at the time the check or order was issued.
    (c) Grading.--
    (1) An offense under this section is:
    (i) a summary offense if the check or order is less than $200;
    (ii) a misdemeanor of the third degree if the check or order is $200 or more but less than $500;
    (iii) a misdemeanor of the second degree if the check or order is $500 or more but less than $1,000;
    (iv) a misdemeanor of the first degree if the check or order is $1,000 or more but is less than $75,000; or
    (v) a felony of the third degree if the check or order is $75,000 or more.
    (2) When the offense is a third or subsequent offense within a five-year period, regardless of the amount of the check or order and regardless of the grading of the prior offenses, an offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree unless the amount of the check or order involved in the third or subsequent offense is $75,000 or more, then the offense is a felony of the third degree.
    (d) Venue.--An offense under subsection (a) may be deemed to have been committed at either the place where the defendant issues or passes the bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money or the place where the financial institution upon which the bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money was drawn is located.
    (e) Costs.--Upon conviction under this section the sentence shall include an order for the issuer or passer to reimburse the payee or such other party as the circumstances may indicate for:
    (1) The face amount of the check.
    (2) Interest at the legal rate on the face amount of the check from the date of dishonor by the drawee.
    (3) A service charge if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued. The service charge shall not exceed $50 unless the payee is charged fees in excess of $50 by financial institutions as a result of such bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money. If the payee is charged fees in excess of $50, then the service charge shall not exceed the actual amount of the fees.
    (July 6, 1984, P.L.647, No.134, eff. 90 days; Dec. 20, 1996, P.L.1531, No.201, eff. 60 days; June 22, 2000, P.L.382, No.50, eff. 60 days; Dec. 18, 2007, P.L.462, No.70, eff. 60 days)

    2007 Amendment. Act 70 amended subsec. (e).
    1996 Amendment. Act 201 amended subsecs. (b) and (c).
    Cross References. Section 4105 is referred to in section 6122 of Title 7 (Banks and Banking); sections 3573, 3575, 8304 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure); section 2303 of Title 44 (Law and Justice).
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    .60 a round is still to high for me . I remember plinking that crap like it were .22s.
    Thas a lot of moolah..
    $.50 was a decent price before TSHTF here. I don't know what it's going for now but it's probably sell-able at $.60 or so, maybe even more.

    ETA: Yep, $.90/ea at Midway right now.
    Last edited by Walleye Hunter; April 10th, 2020 at 09:29 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Quote Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post

    Take it to Knob Creek in the back of a truck with a big "for sale" sign, you'll probably sell it all in a day.
    Knob creek is canceled.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    $.50 was a decent price before TSHTF here. I don't know what it's going for now but it's probably sell-able at $.60 or so, maybe even more.

    ETA: Yep, $.90/ea at Midway right now.

    With or without links? They hold a value all their own. EDIT, found it the same amount ordered from mid way would be $32,544 and I never checked on shipping.
    Last edited by Daycrawler; April 10th, 2020 at 09:37 PM.
    Aggies Coach Really ??? Take off the tin foil bro.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    $.50 was a decent price before TSHTF here. I don't know what it's going for now but it's probably sell-able at $.60 or so, maybe even more.

    ETA: Yep, $.90/ea at Midway right now.
    Thats insane. When I first got into bench shooting 50bmg target rounds were going for almost ten bucks each,
    and military was like 5bucks.

    Total opposite today. Cheap as hell compared to 308/3006 of today.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

    Quote Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post
    You played middleman and he backed out on a deal for which his merchandise was not yet delivered, I wouldn't really call that "burned for $21,600" since you still have a pallet of desirable ammo. You'll just have to sit on it for a bit until you find another buyer.


    Take it to Knob Creek in the back of a truck with a big "for sale" sign, you'll probably sell it all in a day.
    I beg to differ. He committed to a purchase, and the terms of the deal. I’m out $21,600. How did I not get burned?

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