WLG firearms, burned me for $21,600, Gotwals trucking, Xpressway Transportation

[damcv62]

With or without links? They hold a value all their own. EDIT, found it the same amount ordered from mid way would be $32,544 and I never checked on shipping.

So $21,600 delivered wasn’t bad?

[General Geoff]

I beg to differ. He committed to a purchase, and the terms of the deal. I’m out $21,600. How did I not get burned?

Do you have any documentation about the specifics of this commitment? If it was just a verbal, over-the-phone agreement without details, then it's your word against his as to the terms of said contract, including delivery time.

[damcv62]

So did you put out the 21K to order the ammo until his check cleared? He stops payment to you and you are out 21K.


From the PA. crimes code.


§ 4105. Bad checks.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) A person commits an offense if he issues or passes a check or similar sight order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee.
(2) A person commits an offense if he, knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee, issues or passes a check or similar sight order for the payment of money when the drawee is located within this Commonwealth. A violation of this paragraph shall occur without regard to whether the location of the issuance or passing of the check or similar sight order is within or outside of this Commonwealth. It shall be no defense to a violation of this section that some or all of the acts constituting the offense occurred outside of this Commonwealth.
(b) Presumptions.--For the purposes of this section as well as in any prosecution for theft committed by means of a bad check, the following shall apply:
(1) An issuer is presumed to know that the check or order (other than a post-dated check or order) would not be paid, if:
(i) payment was refused because the issuer had no such account with the drawee at the time the check or order was issued; or
(ii) payment was refused by the drawee for lack of funds, upon presentation within 30 days after issue, and the issuer failed to make good within ten days after receiving notice of that refusal.
Notice of refusal may be given to the issuer orally or in writing by any person. Proof that notice was sent by registered or certified mail, regardless of whether a receipt was requested or returned, to the address printed on the check or, if none, then to the issuer's last known address, shall raise a presumption that the notice was received.
(2) A check or order stamped "NSF" or "insufficient funds" shall raise a presumption that payment was refused by the drawee for lack of funds.
(3) A check or order stamped "account closed" or "no such account" or "counterfeit" shall raise a presumption that payment was refused by the drawee because the issuer had no such account with the drawee at the time the check or order was issued.
(c) Grading.--
(1) An offense under this section is:
(i) a summary offense if the check or order is less than $200;
(ii) a misdemeanor of the third degree if the check or order is $200 or more but less than $500;
(iii) a misdemeanor of the second degree if the check or order is $500 or more but less than $1,000;
(iv) a misdemeanor of the first degree if the check or order is $1,000 or more but is less than $75,000; or
(v) a felony of the third degree if the check or order is $75,000 or more.
(2) When the offense is a third or subsequent offense within a five-year period, regardless of the amount of the check or order and regardless of the grading of the prior offenses, an offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree unless the amount of the check or order involved in the third or subsequent offense is $75,000 or more, then the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(d) Venue.--An offense under subsection (a) may be deemed to have been committed at either the place where the defendant issues or passes the bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money or the place where the financial institution upon which the bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money was drawn is located.
(e) Costs.--Upon conviction under this section the sentence shall include an order for the issuer or passer to reimburse the payee or such other party as the circumstances may indicate for:
(1) The face amount of the check.
(2) Interest at the legal rate on the face amount of the check from the date of dishonor by the drawee.
(3) A service charge if written notice of the service charge was conspicuously displayed on the payee's premises when the check was issued. The service charge shall not exceed $50 unless the payee is charged fees in excess of $50 by financial institutions as a result of such bad check or similar sight order for the payment of money. If the payee is charged fees in excess of $50, then the service charge shall not exceed the actual amount of the fees.
(July 6, 1984, P.L.647, No.134, eff. 90 days; Dec. 20, 1996, P.L.1531, No.201, eff. 60 days; June 22, 2000, P.L.382, No.50, eff. 60 days; Dec. 18, 2007, P.L.462, No.70, eff. 60 days)

2007 Amendment. Act 70 amended subsec. (e).
1996 Amendment. Act 201 amended subsecs. (b) and (c).
Cross References. Section 4105 is referred to in section 6122 of Title 7 (Banks and Banking); sections 3573, 3575, 8304 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure); section 2303 of Title 44 (Law and Justice).

Yup. You can site all the legalez you want, I have done business with the person in the past. He committed to the terms of the deal to me over the phone. Sent a check. Sure in a perfect world I’d wait 7-10 days but again in a perfect world people aren’t sleaze balls and stop payment. Shame on me, and now the rest of the world knows to not deal with him.

[damcv62]

Do you have any documentation about the specifics of this commitment? If it was just a verbal, over-the-phone agreement without details, then it's your word against his as to the terms of said contract, including delivery time.

By text messages. Which I’m sure are useless. Which is fine, as long as the community knows he is a sleaze ball? I’ll deal with court costs on my own.

[General Geoff]

By text messages. Which I’m sure are useless. Which is fine, as long as the community knows he is a sleaze ball? I’ll deal with court costs on my own.

Texts are better than a call. It's documentation.

[damcv62]

Texts are better than a call. It's documentation.

I know. But he has sent me $20-30k in the past. No issues waiting 9 months for the atf to approve transfer. I trusted him, I can own that. This is on him.

[Gunsnwater]

Are you selling any of it?

[zachomega]

I'm not entirely sure i understand. Why were you facilitating a sale of ammo as the middle man and what were you supposed to get from it?
If the ammo was paid for and supposed to be drop shipped to the store, isn't it still going to the store?
Are you an ffl?
I'm not casting judgement. But if a story doesn't make sense, it is probably missing a few details.

-Zach

[damcv62]

I'm not entirely sure i understand. Why were you facilitating a sale of ammo as the middle man and what were you supposed to get from it?
If the ammo was paid for and supposed to be drop shipped to the store, isn't it still going to the store?
Are you an ffl?
I'm not casting judgement. But if a story doesn't make sense, it is probably missing a few details.

-Zach

Because you can’t just call up lake city and buy 30,000rds. The total order was over 600,000 rounds. Machine gun guys do this a couple of times a year. If we don’t do it collectively we don’t do it at all. Normally mini gun ammo is .70+ a round. So .60 delivered is a pretty good savings. I’d dealt with Will in the past, the deals had always gone smoothly so I trusted his word. I’m out $21,600 for the pallet he committed too.

[damcv62]

Are you selling any of it?

Not any of mine, I got it for a reason. It’s rare this stuff comes up.