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April 4th, 2020, 08:02 AM #11Grand Member
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Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
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April 4th, 2020, 08:07 AM #12
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
Si vis pacem, para bellumμολ ν λαβέWhat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!
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April 4th, 2020, 08:44 AM #13
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
How? It's still a firearm per Pennsylvania definition. And just because of where we put it doesn't change the federal definition.
Also I'm confused about this whole thread. What's changing? You can't have a loaded long gun in a vehicle, but you also don't need any specific reason to carry, transport it, etc. as long as it's not loaded in or on a vehicle.
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April 4th, 2020, 08:52 AM #14
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
Si vis pacem, para bellumμολ ν λαβέWhat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!
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April 4th, 2020, 09:19 AM #15
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April 4th, 2020, 09:33 AM #16
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
It's all very confusing, irrational and not clearly laid out here in a dedicated thread to reference. I see these confusions all the time and the answers are here but hard to search for because they are scattered. I didn't mean to derail the thread but I like to make notes on responses like the one I responded to originally. And of course I am not a lawyer.
With that said, from all my research "title 1 firearm others" are allowed to be loaded and in a vehicle with a LTCF as per the allowance by PSP. Concealing on ones person could be ok in the eyes of PA law too but is prohibited on the federal level because these types of guns are not supposed to be "concealable". If your AR pistol is over 26" OAL measured from end of the bare muzzle to the end of a fixed receiver extension it's still a pistol unless you put a VFG on it. If you put a VFG on it it becomes a "title 1 firearm other" and falls into the same category as the shockwave. If your AR is shorter than 26" you cannot turn it into a "firearm". Also, you have to have a barrel less than 15" (not 16) in order to be transported loaded in a vehicle with your LTCF so there's that too.
If anyone feels that I'm incorrect about anything please let me know.Si vis pacem, para bellumμολ ν λαβέWhat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!
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April 4th, 2020, 11:11 AM #17
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
I could be wrong here but I thought that the AOW thing would come into play if the device were operational from concealment. The wallet holster and operational briefcase come to mind. I don't think that slipping a shockwave down your pant leg (not a good idea) would qualify. I don't think a shoulder holster would either. The NFA is a strange world, though.
Bob D
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April 4th, 2020, 06:32 PM #18Grand Member
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Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
I did not know that about the Shockwave either. So on that principle, would concealing any long gun also convert it to an AOW, since it's over 26" OAL? Or does the Shockwave become an AOW because it's already a 'firearm' and not a rifle or shotgun? Sorry if that's an absurd question. I honestly don't know if you can conceal a long gun.
And the whole idea of federally illegal and state legal also is a huge can or worms. Weed is still federally legal, but legal in many states. So technically, I guess DEA/FBI could bust someone with weed in a 'legal state' but state/local LE could not? ATF/FBI could bust someone concealing a Shockwave in PA, but state/local LE could not? Do state/local LE have the ability to enforce federal law. This stuff is crazy.Last edited by esh21167; April 4th, 2020 at 06:38 PM.
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April 4th, 2020, 06:43 PM #19
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
Well your LTCF is exactly that. A license to carry firearms as defined in the statute. Long arms do not meet the definition of a firearm.
Si vis pacem, para bellumμολ ν λαβέWhat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!
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April 4th, 2020, 09:14 PM #20
Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now
Under normal circumstances no LTCF is required to carry a rifle or shotgun openly or concealed, except within Philly on public domain. Transporting rifles or shotguns in/on a vehicle has to be unloaded. Carrying "firearms" concealed, or in a vehicle, or openly or concealed on public domain in Philly requires a LTCF.
Under a State of Emergency, carrying "firearms" concealed or in a vehicle, or on Philly public domain doesn't change the requirements. What changes applies to carrying "firearms" openly, or carrying rifles/shotguns on ANY public domain(concealed or openly). During a SoE carrying in any manner of any type of firearm on public domain requires a LTCF - UNLESS EXEMPTED UNDER 6106(b).
During a SoE a LTCF covers rifles and shotguns, and is required. But, rifles and shotguns still cannot be loaded in/on a vehicle.
It really isn't complicated. Basically, the rest of PA has to follow the same rules as Philly does at any time.RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
Don't end up in my signature!
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